same club same ref

[refsrus]

Question; Do you as clubs/ officials get fed up with either the same official turning up or you as an official being sent to the same grounds month after month i as an official do. I have been to 4 clubs in last 2 weeks and next month visit the same 4 clubs any comments ?

[Dave Deacon]

As a referee, do you not have any way of protesting/appealing?

[B Manning]

refsrus, surely the person to ask is the ref appointment sec if you do not like the fixtures you are being given, if you have a problem I am sure he will do his best to solve it, that certainly would be your first port of call, not this forum.

[Dave Deacon]

not this forum

Must be because although people in power deny it, they all look at this Forum to help them get to know what's happening in football throughout the county :clapper:

[refsrus]

Been down your way manning waste of time just wandering if others are having the same issues

[Dave Deacon]

Been down your way manning waste of time just wandering if others are having the same issues

What is the norm with appointments - how large a geographical area should one expect to be asked to cover?

[Borders]

Please note gentlemen that refsrus is only relating to his SWPL appointments. Referees in the other cornish leagues do not, I am absolutely certain, have the same issues.

[refsrus]

Depends which county you are in it seems.we in cornwall stay mainly in county plus any Devon clubs in peninsula west 1 we may get an odd game in Devon on prem league whereas Devon officials are sent into Cornwall on a regular basis.

[refsrus]

Quite agree Borders there are no issues with Cornwall appointments

[Dave Deacon]

Roughly checking through the September appointments for just the Premier Division games, there does seem to be some imbalance when being allowed to cross the border - not one Cornish based ref taking control of a single game in Devon, whereas for 12 matches, Devon refs come the opposite direction and cross the Tamar.47 games involved of which 25 in Cornwall, 22 in Devon.

Mind you when looking at the list of official referees in the SWPL handbook out of the 32, only 11 are in Cornwall. It would still be nice for our boys in black to be allowed a passport though surely!

Apologies if numbers aren't dead accurate, rushed job! But the message is the same!!!

[B Manning]

refsrus, as to your question we do not seem to have this problem down here, so looking at the lists I can only assume it`s a CSWPL problem mainly due to a shortage of qualified officials.

[Dave Deacon]

Surely the ref who started this post should know this isn’t the correct channel if he is not happy. I bet the SWPL are disappointed he has not taken that route although as he has done it this way, does this show lack of confidence in the League’s system maybe?

If it is because of the latter suggestion, the league will need to look at that. The Chairman and Secretary do look on this site.

I understand one reason that Cornish refs are not getting games further afield is because things are dire with not having enough Level 4 refs to go around, leading the league to dip their toes and feet into the Level 5 pool at the moment. With FA Cup games, Western League games, failure of the fitness test at this level, Barry Jackson and his team have struggled in August and going into September and have done brilliantly to cover games like they have – it must be an absolute thankless task that I bet isn’t at all appreciated outside of the League Officers.

Normally, I’m told the League would expect an official on the border to go both ways and likewise an official at the extreme end of one county to go to the other end of that county. Apart from the moans about how poor the officials are, the other gripe is either “THIS REF RESIDES JUST AROUND THE CORNER AND WE GET HIM ALL THE TIME” or “THIS REFEREE’S TRAVELLING EXPENSES ARE MASSIVE AND ITS TOO MUCH”. A case of damned if they do and damned if they don’t! Anyway, isn’t there a pooling system where all clubs end up paying the same, either by refunds or payments at the end of the season, so the argument isn’t really valid in any case.

Looking at the month of fixtures I scrutinised earlier, there’s only five Cornish based refs actually taking part in September! This is to do about 70 fixtures listed in the Premier and Throgmorton Cup, and so surely one has to say “NO WONDER CORNWALL IS SUPPLEMENTED BY DEVON OFFICIALS”.

The bottom line is that referees aren’t coming through in Cornwall - WHY?

Some would say because of the constant abuse on this Forum plays a part - harsh or what? It can’t be just because of this surely!

However, an example could be given from last season when James Strout, TOP CORNISH OFFICIAL IN THE DUCHY AT OUR LEVEL LAST YEAR, and whatever the rights and wrongs of the game at the end of the season at Camelford were, look at the abuse he got on this Forum! Was it fair for a young man to read that?

Many would say it wasn’t fair! But then the next day it’s highlighted about the lack of officials! No doubt many people in power would say “WHY DON’T THE ONES WHO CONSTANTLY BELLY ACHE ABOUT THE MATCH DAY OFFICIALS ON THIS FORUM, SPEND £80 TO TAKE UP THE WHISTLE AND TAKE UP REFEREEING.”

What’s the response to this suggestion I wonder?

The thing is people are worried about the situation in Cornwall - NEW BLOOD is badly needed.

[bighairydave]

Dave, I hope by two weeks time we should have a better idea of how the land lies once the final round of fitness tests have taken place. I can assure you the refereeing department at Cornwall CFA are doing their upmost to bring through the new blood and hope that things will finally improve over the next couple of years.

[Dave Deacon]

I can assure you the refereeing department at Cornwall CFA are doing their upmost to bring through the new blood and hope that things will finally improve over the next couple of years.

Why were these fitness tests not done before the start of the season? I thought our "fast-track system" and the likes of "our young referees programmes" were suppose to improve the numbers. Something has obviously gone wrong! What?

[Gary Cornish]

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

[Borders]

Problem not helped this year chaps by the number of Level 4 referees injured. The fitness test was taken pre season and repeats have taken place since. I believe that only 5 x Cornish Level 4's are active at the moment, the remainder have injuries which either forced them to miss the tests or caused them to fail, despite giving it a go! On another note, again looking at the lists, I believe the Level 4 quota includes both servicemen working abroad and guys at university away from the SW which all contribute to a nightmare for the appointments officer.

[le boss]

Problem not helped this year chaps by the number of Level 4 referees injured. The fitness test was taken pre season and repeats have taken place since. I believe that only 5 x Cornish Level 4's are active at the moment, the remainder have injuries which either forced them to miss the tests or caused them to fail, despite giving it a go! On another note, again looking at the lists, I believe the Level 4 quota includes both servicemen working abroad and guys at university away from the SW which all contribute to a nightmare for the appointments officer.

Where is the sense in a referee from Torpoint being given an evening game in West Cornwall. Cannot be easy for him despite having to be paid £74-00!!!! Peninsula officials must be a bit sensible.

[hoppit]

Problem not helped this year chaps by the number of Level 4 referees injured. The fitness test was taken pre season and repeats have taken place since. I believe that only 5 x Cornish Level 4's are active at the moment, the remainder have injuries which either forced them to miss the tests or caused them to fail, despite giving it a go! On another note, again looking at the lists, I believe the Level 4 quota includes both servicemen working abroad and guys at university away from the SW which all contribute to a nightmare for the appointments officer.

Where is the sense in a referee from Torpoint being given an evening game in West Cornwall. Cannot be easy for him despite having to be paid £74-00!!!! Peninsula officials must be a bit sensible.

When you get to a certain level you stop being a hobby ref and become a career ref so basically you go where you are appointed . When i was Contributary league official i used to go to Paulton Taunton Yeovil etc for evening matches and i lived on the edge of Bodmin Moor bit of a pain but just the way it has to be. My local teams were Bideford Barnstaple Tiverton etc. Just has to happen for the officials to progress, a lot of clubs are paying their players big money so expenses shouldn't be an issue.

[Cornish-Ref]

Problem not helped this year chaps by the number of Level 4 referees injured. The fitness test was taken pre season and repeats have taken place since. I believe that only 5 x Cornish Level 4's are active at the moment, the remainder have injuries which either forced them to miss the tests or caused them to fail, despite giving it a go! On another note, again looking at the lists, I believe the Level 4 quota includes both servicemen working abroad and guys at university away from the SW which all contribute to a nightmare for the appointments officer.

Where is the sense in a referee from Torpoint being given an evening game in West Cornwall. Cannot be easy for him despite having to be paid £74-00!!!! Peninsula officials must be a bit sensible.

When you get to a certain level you stop being a hobby ref and become a career ref so basically you go where you are appointed . When i was Contributary league official i used to go to Paulton Taunton Yeovil etc for evening matches and i lived on the edge of Bodmin Moor bit of a pain but just the way it has to be. My local teams were Bideford Barnstaple Tiverton etc. Just has to happen for the officials to progress, a lot of clubs are paying their players big money so expenses shouldn't be an issue.

I agree with thie last comment........

With living in West Cornwall at Level 4 you maybe appointed as an Assistant in North Devon or even as far as Bristol - therefore on a Saturday you leave home at say 9am returning late in the evening (loosing family time). The chances of making evening fixtures are not possible due to distances!

You have to therefore make a decision........ if I want to progress upwards of level 5, you either have to re-locate to Devon or stick with SWPL Div West due to the logistics of Level 4 and above. Living in West or Mid Cornwall doesn't make it an easy choice.......... This is probably why there is a shortage of Lvel 4's in the county.

From my point of view, I will have to think hard about whether I look towards 4 next year......

With reference to abuse that the forum dishes out to referees, an idea might be that the CCFA fines clubs for the slating of referees by club associates! It could be policed by the forum and might reduce the number of people leaving the game. The FA inforce it as could the forum.....!!!

[Dave Deacon]

With reference to abuse that the forum dishes out to referees, an idea might be that the CCFA fines clubs for the slating of referees by club associates! It could be policed by the forum and might reduce the number of people leaving the game. The FA inforce it as could the forum.....!!!

Hang on a second, how many people leave the game due to criticism received on a forum? If they do, they aren't worth bothering anyway. We all have to be bigger and stronger and make sure we don't deserve any criticism. How many games on average are there on a Saturday, and how many refs end up getting grief - a small percentage I would suggest.

[hoppit]

Problem not helped this year chaps by the number of Level 4 referees injured. The fitness test was taken pre season and repeats have taken place since. I believe that only 5 x Cornish Level 4's are active at the moment, the remainder have injuries which either forced them to miss the tests or caused them to fail, despite giving it a go! On another note, again looking at the lists, I believe the Level 4 quota includes both servicemen working abroad and guys at university away from the SW which all contribute to a nightmare for the appointments officer.

Where is the sense in a referee from Torpoint being given an evening game in West Cornwall. Cannot be easy for him despite having to be paid £74-00!!!! Peninsula officials must be a bit sensible.

When you get to a certain level you stop being a hobby ref and become a career ref so basically you go where you are appointed . When i was Contributary league official i used to go to Paulton Taunton Yeovil etc for evening matches and i lived on the edge of Bodmin Moor bit of a pain but just the way it has to be. My local teams were Bideford Barnstaple Tiverton etc. Just has to happen for the officials to progress, a lot of clubs are paying their players big money so expenses shouldn't be an issue.

I agree with thie last comment........

With living in West Cornwall at Level 4 you maybe appointed as an Assistant in North Devon or even as far as Bristol - therefore on a Saturday you leave home at say 9am returning late in the evening (loosing family time). The chances of making evening fixtures are not possible due to distances!

You have to therefore make a decision........ if I want to progress upwards of level 5, you either have to re-locate to Devon or stick with SWPL Div West due to the logistics of Level 4 and above. Living in West or Mid Cornwall doesn't make it an easy choice.......... This is probably why there is a shortage of Lvel 4's in the county.

From my point of view, I will have to think hard about whether I look towards 4 next year......

With reference to abuse that the forum dishes out to referees, an idea might be that the CCFA fines clubs for the slating of referees by club associates! It could be policed by the forum and might reduce the number of people leaving the game. The FA inforce it as could the forum.....!!!

If you feel as if it's something you really want a do then go for it, but beleive me Minhead on a cold January day is not that great, you get some good times as well though. Then theres the meetings, and the disaplinary hearings that are held in the players home county which could be Wiltshire or Gloucsteshire.Still it's better to try and regret than regret not trying. Make sure your family is behind you 100% as it can get very demanding. Good luck whatever you decide.

[duchyMclovin]

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

there's a pretty solid reason why you get so much abuse Cornish...............

[Cornish-Ref]

With reference to abuse that the forum dishes out to referees, an idea might be that the CCFA fines clubs for the slating of referees by club associates! It could be policed by the forum and might reduce the number of people leaving the game. The FA inforce it as could the forum.....!!!

Hang on a second, how many people leave the game due to criticism received on a forum? If they do, they aren't worth bothering anyway. We all have to be bigger and stronger and make sure we don't deserve any criticism. How many games on average are there on a Saturday, and how many refs end up getting grief - a small percentage I would suggest.

Forums are a funny place.........

I thought that the earlier points raised in the discussion were that of trying to encourage younger people to become referee's.......!!! Just for the record I'm not young!!!!! I personally don't care what people say neither am I interested in what is written on this forum, sadly though some younger referee's knew to the game (teenagers) might well do........

[hoppit]

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

there's a pretty solid reason why you get so much abuse Cornish...............

With ignorant comments like this look no further as to why theres a shortage of refs. Garys a good ref with years of experience. You are presumably not a ref so no experience so not qualified to comment. Go and take the course and have a go. doubt wether your man enough to take the stick though.

[David Lobb]

Honestly, ask yourself why anyone referee's anymore unless they really ,really love the game.Unless you have done it you have no idea how idea how hard it is. When I first did I came off with a headache.It is so different to playing it is almost a different language.Cut them some slack and ask yourself at the end of a game, did I win every tackle,complete every pass, and score every chance.When you can honestly say youy did, perhaps you can pass judgement .

[Gary Cornish]

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

there's a pretty solid reason why you get so much abuse Cornish...............

Are you talking generally? or me personally?

[The Villains]

With reference to abuse that the forum dishes out to referees, an idea might be that the CCFA fines clubs for the slating of referees by club associates! It could be policed by the forum and might reduce the number of people leaving the game. The FA inforce it as could the forum.....!!!

Hang on a second, how many people leave the game due to criticism received on a forum? If they do, they aren't worth bothering anyway. We all have to be bigger and stronger and make sure we don't deserve any criticism. How many games on average are there on a Saturday, and how many refs end up getting grief - a small percentage I would suggest.

I think you mean a small percentage DONT get any grief!! How many games have you been to that no one has given the ref a mouthful?

[Argyle Fan]

Surely referees have it in their power to crack down on the abuse from players (and management) by use of yellow / red cards?

I was at a Peninsula game over the weekend where a player called the ref an f-ing ***** at a volume loud enough to be heard by all present and probably in the next parish too.

Did the player get a card? No - not even a talking to.

And this isn't an isolated incident.

I'm not advocating cards being flashed every time someone swears but direct abuse (foul or not) of refs and linos can be and should be cracked down on.

[The Professor]

I was advised to stop playing football at the age of 23 due to an injury. Although I already had some coaching badges and a sports-related degree (a path I eventually took), I thought about giving refereeing a try.......

I refereed ONE GAME. Never again. I have so much respect for those who do it on a regular basis. Without them - there is no game.

[Mr Cornwall]

dave, as a club linesman in the west division i love it a lot and everyone else does a great job at their clubs by being professional and fair in all decisions.

why dont the league pay for all club officials to become referees and im sure that they could be installed to referee games when not needed by their clubs?

i been linesman for 6 years now in all different leagues and for 5 clubs in the west. if the league invited me to do a course in saltash i would jump at the chance as i dont want to spend money only to get it back so why dont they just do courses for free?

i dont drive which wouldnt help but i catch trains a lot so i would be able to do games in st austell, blazey, newquay, truro, liskeard, penzance, saltash and a whole load more.

i remember a couple years ago a referee who did a game at camelford who came from torquay as the original ref failed to show. thats commitment.

if the league read this forum get in touch with me!!

[whuru]

whilst we have refs on this page could one clear this up for me....

if a player is standing 20 yards from goal inbetween the gk and centre half and the c/h heads the ball back trying to give it to his keeper when the player intercepts the ball is he offside ?

[Mama Sidibe]

whilst we have refs on this page could one clear this up for me....

if a player is standing 20 yards from goal inbetween the gk and centre half and the c/h heads the ball back trying to give it to his keeper when the player intercepts the ball is he offside ?

I am not a ref but from how I interpret the scenario you're trying to explain, I would definitely say that the player would not be offside.

[B Manning]

He cannot be offside as the defending side have played the ball back to the keeper, he can only be offside if the ball was played to him by an attacking player.

[whuru]

thanks for clearing that up for me, it happened to us yesterday and the ref gave a free kick after he had rounded the keeeper, i asked the linesman who told me he was in an offside position when he recieved the ball even if it was from one of his own players and i should learn the rules !!!!!

[Smudge]

thanks for clearing that up for me, it happened to us yesterday and the ref gave a free kick after he had rounded the keeeper, i asked the linesman who told me he was in an offside position when he recieved the ball even if it was from one of his own players and i should learn the rules !!!!!

As far as I'm aware (and I'm sure Anita would put me straight) there are no rules in football - they're Laws.

[Anita]

As far as I'm aware (and I'm sure Anita would put me straight) there are no rules in football - they're Laws.

Would i ever say that to you :thumbsup:

[duchyMclovin]

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

there's a pretty solid reason why you get so much abuse Cornish...............

Are you talking generally? or me personally?

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

Dave, the biggest problem lies in the ratio of Level 4 referees across the 2 counties. Devon have a signifigantly higher number of referees in relation to Cornwall & as such are entitled to the minimum number of games to officiate at that level throughout the season. We currently have at least 2 referees who were operating at level 4 last season on the injured list, (both are young referees) & it is hoped they return quickly.

Referees are coming through from Cornwall, James Strout a prime example at the top end of the Cornish game. There are also some very good prospects operating at the lower end who are 'cutting their teeth'.

The abuse does not help. On this forum, let alone the grief we get given during a game, a referee at East Cornwall League level, who is considered one of the best for that level was slated saturday evening because he had not sent a player off! On reflection, that person changed their mind on that referee's overall perfomance. The damage was already done, yet there was no criticism of the player that made the challenge being debated!!

Cornwall is working very hard to rectify the current situation & it is hoped that it is done sooner rather than later. Clubs behaviour have a major part to play in it.

The answer is a million dollar question. When you speak to young players, or experienced players, they say they could not take the abuse we referees do. Maybe it's about time that players & managers had a look at their own games. It would go a long way to improving the number of referees in this part of the world! The cream would soon rise to the top, as it does now, but in larger quantities.

there's a pretty solid reason why you get so much abuse Cornish...............

Are you talking generally? or me personally?

i think u know gary ......................

[The Smiling Assassin]

Then take up the whistle and show him how easy it is! What excuse do you have, too busy? bad leg? washing your hair?

At least Gary Cornish has the guts to be there to make decisions. Have you? Something tells me no!

[Gary Cornish]

duchyMclovin, I will assume on the basis of how you first addressed me that you mean personally.

Yes, at times I have received my fair share of abuse during games. Some highly probably warranted due to players, managers & spectators viewing from a different angle & different position. Some totally ignorant abuse I have received has been totally un-warranted, like the time I was called every name under the sun by two elderly gentlemen watching a Southern League game I was Assistant on because I did not flag a player offside from a throw in!!

I have also had a threat to break my 'f*****g legs' during a game, 'be careful when you are driving home ref' threats as well as unneccessary text messages the day after one particular game.

There are also times when I have received praise from players, managers & spectators - already three times this season!!! Sorry, once on here after the game so that's 4 out of 5 games. That's not bad so far is it?

Not once have I claimed to be a good referee. Not once have I claimed to be right with every decision I have made during a game. I have had bad games, mediocre ones, & yes occasionally good games! I am my own worst critic since my father passed away.

I have also refereed bad games, average games & some very good ones. Yes, I make mistakes in every game I referee, like a player makes mistakes in every game they play. Yet my record says that I have done well as a referee. How else would I have officiated in 10 County Finals, 1 Western League Final, 1 South Western League Final, 2 East Cornwall League Finals, as well as Veterans, Womens & numerous Youth Leagues Finals. Lets not forget the ESFA National Semi Finals & Finals, & 7 South West Counties Championship! Be honest, that's pretty good going for someone who considers themselves to be a 'not bad referee'.

I am also involved with coaching of young referees in an attempt to improve the standard of Match Officials in the South West region, but mainly Cornwall. I have the guts to be out there on avergae 70-90 games per season. I am also trying to improve the standard. What are you doing?

[Dave Deacon]

I have officiated in 10 County Finals, 1 Western League Final, 1 South Western League Final, 2 East Cornwall League Finals, as well as Veterans, Womens & numerous Youth Leagues Finals. Lets not forget the ESFA National Semi Finals & Finals, & 7 South West Counties Championship!

Very impressive - many a player will not have achieved anywhere near that many honours

[Gary Cornish]

I have officiated in 10 County Finals, 1 Western League Final, 1 South Western League Final, 2 East Cornwall League Finals, as well as Veterans, Womens & numerous Youth Leagues Finals. Lets not forget the ESFA National Semi Finals & Finals, & 7 South West Counties Championship!

Very impressive - many a player will not have achieved anywhere near that many honours

Many thanks Dave, :drink:

[cornish-blue]

I have officiated in 10 County Finals, 1 Western League Final, 1 South Western League Final, 2 East Cornwall League Finals, as well as Veterans, Womens & numerous Youth Leagues Finals. Lets not forget the ESFA National Semi Finals & Finals, & 7 South West Counties Championship!

Very impressive - many a player will not have achieved anywhere near that many honours

Many thanks Dave,

i would have said most players will NEVER achieve that many honours

[hoppit]

Don't get me started about Gary Cornish. Always soul destroying to arrive at a match and find he is your ref.

Maybe Gary finds it soul destroying when he turns up and sees you there, in my vast experience as a referee people like you tend to blame the ref for your own inadequacies.Next time he is fixtured to do you maybe he shouldn't turn up, you can have a cracking game with no ref. The thing is i know Gary is too professional to even consider this. People like you don't deserve a ref and should go Tescos on a Saturday afternoon.

[Argyle Fan]

thanks for clearing that up for me, it happened to us yesterday and the ref gave a free kick after he had rounded the keeeper, i asked the linesman who told me he was in an offside position when he recieved the ball even if it was from one of his own players and i should learn the rules !!!!!

I think you meant to say 'even if it was not from one of his own players'.

Was this an appointed or club linesman?

I thought it was players / managers / supporters who don't understand the LOAF but this makes me wonder.

As a supporter I often find offside decisions baffling but it seems at least one and maybe other linos have a fundamental failure to understand the offside law.

[duchyMclovin]

Gary Cornish........i agree that is a good record but there are a lot of players who play well above the standard they should be at .......

I may be wrong but i don't think any ref in Cornwall has been attacked on the way home or had his legs broken ??? players also say that too each other........also don't forget those old men who give u some abuse have paid your wages and i suspect they also let the opposing team know they are there too.

You say you don't claim to be a good referee but then state your record...........

it worries me that the not many of the good refs become assessors and that the bad ones love their clip board........

i admire the time and effort you put in but once in a while don't turn up acting like your in charge and full of your own importance and maybe your likability may improve ....

i'm sure you think this is just another knocker of refs but honestly it's not and you will probably not take any notice of the last paragraph but i hope you do and you may even get some finals to put on here ........

[The Smiling Assassin]

....and maybe your likability may improve ....

I would think that Gary does not referee to be liked! He referees because he loves the game and the job he is there to do is to allow the game to be played within the laws.

[B Manning]

duchyMclovin, please could you clarify for me your statement " it worries me that not many of the good referee`s become assessors and that the bad ones love their clipboard" are you saying that the majority of assessors are/ were bad referee`s and the good referee`s do not become assessors. On another point I pm`d you and asked which Duchy team you were with so I could introduce myself to you as you were interested in my real name so far you have not replied.

[duchyMclovin]

some refs are very much liked as people before they are refs and some are not ....maybe this is the case???

a lot of the good refs get so fed up with red tape and when they are marked down for dishing out cards that the assessor deems he should have by ' the letter of the law ' they get disillusioned with the system .....

i was only interested in who you were for selfish reasons so no problem if you wish to keep yourself to yourself .....

u wont see me in duchy football and u seem to make the common mistake that thinking i'm a player or coach .....

you might want to look a bit closer to home my friends ..........

[B Manning]

In reply if I may , it`s called life some people are liked others not but not by all people,as to good refs getting fed up with all the red tape what a load of rubbish I have been playing and refereeing now for more years than I care to remember I also am an assessor, all my comments to referee`s are advice to help that referee improve, he/she does not have to follow that advice if they find it does not work for them. By nature a referee is self critical so listening to advice from a fellow referee or assessor is normal and I can state that I have never been offered advice that was not relevant or useful and well worth listening too. Disillusioned with the system, I have not met one yet and I list in my referee friends people who have officiated from the Premier right down at all levels to grass root football. You seem to be hinting that you are a referee but in all honesty from your posts I would find that hard to believe, but I am always willing to be astounded.

[Gary Cornish]

Gary Cornish........i agree that is a good record but there are a lot of players who play well above the standard they should be at .......

I may be wrong but i don't think any ref in Cornwall has been attacked on the way home or had his legs broken ??? players also say that too each other........also don't forget those old men who give u some abuse have paid your wages and i suspect they also let the opposing team know they are there too.

You say you don't claim to be a good referee but then state your record...........

it worries me that the not many of the good refs become assessors and that the bad ones love their clip board........

i admire the time and effort you put in but once in a while don't turn up acting like your in charge and full of your own importance and maybe your likability may improve ....

i'm sure you think this is just another knocker of refs but honestly it's not and you will probably not take any notice of the last paragraph but i hope you do and you may even get some finals to put on here ........

duchyMclovin you are correct as far as I am aware that no referee has had their legs broken.

I also told my boss today that although he pays my wages, he does not have the right to abuse me!

Correct, I stated I don't claim to be a good referee. I then stated 'that my record shows I have done well as a referee'

You appear to have issues with Assessors or the system, or both! Maybe you have have been disillusioned with the 'red tape' in the past? Maybe it's my 'likeability' trait that I should address, maybe it's your listening to good advice trait that you should address. I could be wrong of course.

It would also appear to me you don't particularly like me. I don't referee to be liked.

I can't comment on what I think about you because I don't know who you are. So on that basis I'll stick to taking advice from the people that I do know, & know their advice will help me. It seems to have worked so far!

Anyway, best of luck in what ever you chose to do.