F A Vase Draw

[Mike Odgers]

F A Vase 3rd. (Sat Dec.7th.)

Plymouth Parkway v Hallen(Bristol)(10th.Western L-Premier)

Saltash United v Alresford Town(Winchester)(4th,Wessex League Premier)

Kidlington (10th Hellenic League Premier)v Bodmin Town

Kidlington from Oxfordshire had a comfortable 2nd Round 3-0 win over Tavistock

SW.Peninsula(step 6)clubs face opponents from the higher Step 5 Leagues

[Mike Odgers]

Cornwall Senior Cup (same day)

So Saltash v Illogan and Porthleven v Bodmin will be postponed

[MOUNTAINEER]

The FA Vase has always been won by Step 5 clubs EXCEPT when Truro City did it whilst competing at Step 6 (OK we all know the players were capable of Step 5 or higher at the time). The FA Vase is big in the Northern clubs calendar so most winners of the Vase refuse promotion if they win their league so they retain an interest it, perhaps it would be a good thing for Step 4 clubs to be permitted entry, it would give them something to play for because none of them would ever win the FA Trophy. Step 6 clubs and below could benefit should a NEW COMPETITION were introduced for them and probably open the door for MORE Cornish clubs to have something they were capable of winning to compete in.

I am only posting this as a matter of interest and possible comment from anyone regarding the proposal mentioned in the article.

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STEP 4 CLUBS TO JOIN THE FA VASE? The Ebac Northern League’s recent dominance of the FA Carlsberg Vase could be tested if a recent suggestion is put into practice.

Published 4th November 2013

Northern League clubs have won the Vase at Wembley for the last five years, but the FA are considering allowing clubs from higher up the national system to enter the Vase competition instead of the Trophy.

The Northern League First Division is Step 5 in the non-League Pyramid, and the FA is considering allowing clubs from Step 4 to enter the competition, which would mean an extra 120 clubs or so from across the country.

The `Step 5/6 Focus Group` has already said that the move wouldn’t be welcomed by clubs at their level, and Northern League chairman Mike Amos said: “What has clearly happened is that clubs in those Step 4 leagues have grumbled because they’ve little chance of winning the FA Trophy and they want to enter something they could win. The converse, of course, is that most step 5/6 league clubs would feel that any chance they had of reaching Wembley would seriously be diminished.

“Clearly this is at an early stage. You wondered how long it would be, didn’t you, before the bigger boys tried to muscle in on what in so many ways is a very special competition?

“I rarely try to second guess the Northern League management committee but it’s safe to say that, if asked, we will wholeheartedly and vigorously oppose this proposal. Its chances of success will, I trust, be lessened by a national expression of disgust.”

The suggestion hasn’t been completely dismissed by Northern League club managers though, and some feel that it has some merit.

Billingham Synthonia assistant-manager Lee Tucker can see both sides of the argument. “The arguments as to why Northern League clubs have not taken promotion have been well rehearsed. However, a consequence of this stagnation is that it seems to be a matter of which top Northern League team gets to the final rather than whether any of them will. I am not sure that this is great for the competition and whilst it still remains a great achievement and something to be proud of for players and managers, it has become such a common occurrence for teams around here that I can't help thinking it has slightly devalued the achievement, especially for those top clubs with big budgets.

“Another perspective that should be considered is from that of teams from other leagues where maybe the transitional nature of their leagues (teams going up and coming down) means competing with teams from Step 4 will make their task even harder than what it is now. Therefore I do not think it is an easy question to answer and can see arguments from both sides.”

Shildon manager Gary Forrest led his team to the semi-finals of the Vase last season where they lost to Kent (now Southern Counties East) League side Tunbridge Wells, and he said: “It’s not such a bad idea and may encourage promotion.”

Whitley Bay manager Ian Chandler, who won the Vase once as a player and three times as a manager, said: “Increased competition is always a good thing, it may generate extra interest. This may also encourage more and more teams to advance up through the Pyramid (from the north anyway).

“On the other side, is this change being made for the right reasons, or is it that the FA have had enough of the Northern League dominance and thought they’ll fill the competition with potential higher quality in a roundabout way of pushing Northern league teams into the Pyramid?”

Dunston UTS manager Billy Irwin, whose side won the Vase in 2012, said: “Maybe it’s an attempt to devalue the Northern League and give everyone a chance. The Northern League is that strong, who’s to say that even if the clubs from the level above come into the competition, then the Northern League still won’t win it?”

West Auckland Town boss Peter Dixon said: “I can see both sides of the argument. If bringing Step 4 clubs into the competition means that Northern League clubs want to go up more, then it’s good. Personally, I would love to see the Northern League at the same level as the Evo-Stik Northern Premier League First Division because I think it’s good enough.”

Jason Ainsley of Spennymoor Town is the most recent NL manager to lift the Trophy at Wembley last May, and he said: “In terms of increased crowds I don't think it will make any difference whatsoever unless it's Darlington of course.

“It depends on which teams are playing. You just have to look at our final last season - more fans attended that than the following day’s FA Trophy final between Wrexham and Newport County because Tunbridge from Kent brought over 11,000. I think the quality will undoubtedly be greater and it will definitely make it more difficult for NL teams to get there but for me I would like to test myself against teams from the next step week in week out so I wouldn't have a problem with it. It does make it easier me saying that though after already experiencing the tremendous occasion first hand.”

There is also a train of thought that the FA might be preparing the way for a third national competition for clubs at Step 6 and below – Northern League Division Two and the leagues below that – to compensate them for damaged Vase prospects.

[source: Ray Simpson]

COMMENTS (0

[Nemesis]

Good luck to all the SWPL sides, all potential victors in the next round.

As for the Step 4 proposal, whilst it may suit some of the Northern sides, it does little for the clubs in Steps 6 & 7 in these parts, it is hard enough to compete now. What do the FA really want ? If they want clubs to bring in bigger and better facilities, then the incentive for the lower level clubs has to be there. Why would a Step 7 club bother spending cash and improving their ground to enter the FA Vase, when they know full well that sides 3 levels above would dominate and probably win it ?

The FA Cup is already out of sight for Step 7 sides, the chance of getting a few quid by winning 2 or 3 Preliminary / Qualifying rounds would cover a lot of clubs expenses for a season, but they are denied by The Wembley bigwigs. The FA Vase prize money is tiny in comparison, the chance of a decent run will be diminished if the Step 4 clubs are brought in, the financial outlay for a Step 7 side would not be worth it.

Message to The FA, leave well alone, things are just fine the way they are.

[Dave Deacon]

Have to agree - why has the FA got to be constantly tinkering with things!

[MOUNTAINEER]

Gentlemen - Did you read this bit?

There is also a train of thought that the FA might be preparing the way for a third national competition for clubs at Step 6 and below – Northern League Division Two and the leagues below that – to compensate them for damaged Vase prospects.

[Dave Deacon]

Full draw according to Pitchero, ties to be played Sat Dec 7th

Winsford United or Spennymoor Town v Bridlington Town

West Auckland Town v Billingham Synthonia

Brighouse Town v Whickham

Staveley Miners Welfare v Morpeth Town

Jarrow Roofing Boldon CA v Newcastle Benfield

Ashington v Thackley

Whitley Bay v Dunston UTS

Congleton Town v AFC Mansfield or Huntingdon Town

Blaby & Whetstone Athletic v Causeway United

AFC Rushden & Diamonds v Graham St Prims

Holwell Sports v Coleshill Town

Spalding United v Wisbech Town

Alvechurch v Westfields

St Andrews v Bolehall Swifts

Great Wakering Rovers v Hullbridge Sports

East Preston v Rye United

Hanwell Town v Lordswood

Ampthill Town v Beckenham Town

Brightlingsea Regent v Colney Heath

Ashford United v Tring Athletic

South Park or Cray Valley (PM) v Eastbourne United

Hadleigh United v Ely City or Welwyn Garden City

Norwich United v Erith Town

Tunbridge Wells v Hanworth Villa

Haringey Borough v Brantham Athletic

Moneyfields v Bitton

Plymouth Parkway v Hallen

AFC Portchester v Blackfield & Langley

Binfield v Larkhall Athletic

Reading Town v Sholing

Kidlington v Bodmin Town

Saltash United v Alresford Town

[Bruegel the Elder]

Gentlemen - Did you read this bit?

There is also a train of thought that the FA might be preparing the way for a third national competition for clubs at Step 6 and below – Northern League Division Two and the leagues below that – to compensate them for damaged Vase prospects.

Yes Mountaineer, I read it, bring on the F.A. Bowl. The sooner the better.

[Nemesis]

Gentlemen - Did you read this bit?

There is also a train of thought that the FA might be preparing the way for a third national competition for clubs at Step 6 and below – Northern League Division Two and the leagues below that – to compensate them for damaged Vase prospects.

Oh goody, trips to far flung Northern Div Two sides for a prize money of £700 in Round 5 ?

The Prize money in the FA Vase is already pathetically small, no doubt it will be less in the FA Bowl or whatever stupid name they want. Still two more clubs will get to Wembley and play in a stadium that will be 20% full at most. Those two may make a couple of quid out of selling scarves, but it is hardly worth it for the rest.

[midlandlilywhite]

These are decent draws for our 3 clubs which give them every chance to progress to the next round. Good luck to all 3 of them.

[MOUNTAINEER]

Nemesis, don't worry, there won't be a need for you to buy a scarf.

I think the playing of non-league finals at Wembley may soon be a thing of the past, I give it a couple of years.

At least Truro City's travelling fans can still sing about winning at Wembley.

Take care Father Time moves quicker as you get older.

[Yan]

Bodmin should beat kidlington, not a great side. If Tavistock had a full squad out would have been much closer.

[leedsunited]

Confident of progression through to the next round, preffered a home tie but can't have everything I suppose..