Foul language, the FA crackdown

[scousemouse]

Will the Football Association crackdown on foul language have an effect on local football? Will we see more games ending with less than twenty two players? Will we see more managers being sent from the dug out?

If we do see the new rules being adhered to, lets hope there is consistency!!

There is nothing worse than rules being broken and not being punished. The officials are surely braking the rules if they don't adhere to them!

[B Manning]

scousemouse, when are you taking up the whistle, you obviously seem to have a lot to offer the refereeing of games.

[TURNIP TED]

Manning , he has a good point. Now Refs can act and not hide away.  Lets see this foul and abusive language stamped out.

 

Now this has hit the head lines , lets forget about the past and move forward this newer directive.

[rocky170267]

What an 'f' ing load off crap. What if you have Tourette's ??

[baldy]

Another good initiative which will be implemented with wide spread red & yellow cards. Then after about 6 weeks it will quietly dropped - just like the red cards for the professional foul brought in several years ago!

[TURNIP TED]

1 hour ago, rocky170267 said:

What an 'f' ing load off crap. What if you have Tourette's ??

Typical , stupid reply from Rocky.

[B Manning]

Turnip Ted, I already act in the way the FA suggest and have been doing so all my time refereeing. 

[TURNIP TED]

Most refs do not.  All I am saying, is the ones that do not , draw a line in the sand now .............. because here is your opportunity too change.

I am not having a pop at the refs Manning.  I would not like to do the job.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, rocky170267 said:

What an 'f' ing load off crap. What if you have Tourette's ??

Tourettes isn't just about swearing. That's just one of the tics and it doesn't affect everybody. As Richard Scudamore said it isn't about swearing. He used an example of a player being fouled and foul language in the workplace but if it is aimed in the direction of the referee then it should be punishable. I don't think this rule change will make a whole lot of difference to be honest but I really hope I am going to be proved wrong.

[scousemouse]

21 hours ago, B Manning said:

scousemouse, when are you taking up the whistle, you obviously seem to have a lot to offer the refereeing of games.

Why is that B Manning? If you are already penalising players for foul language, I must compliment you. But you know, I know and everybody else knows, that swearing is dealt with no consistency.

[Dave Deacon]

24 minutes ago, alfie88 said:

Please don't call me sunshine it's very patronising in fact your whole post is a load of old drivel,if I feel the need to swear then swear I will 

Not on this forum! 

[TURNIP TED]

Keith , I think Alfie is a Plymothian lol.  He does what he wants.

[bighairydave]

4 hours ago, Keith B said:

Linesmen/women must advise the referee of any verbal abuse directed at them that the ref may not hear. That player should be warned, then booked if it continues. Consistency is a word often used and yes we would all like it, however, referees must always be allowed discretion. Those of us watching the game are not always abreast with all that is said, so please allow the referee some lee way.

When this happens though assistant are told by players/club officials/supporters "it's not about you just get on with it!" So at times it's easier to just ignore it!

[BIG AL]

1 hour ago, bighairydave said:

When this happens though assistant are told by players/club officials/supporters "it's not about you just get on with it!" So at times it's easier to just ignore it!

Perhaps it would help if refs had a much less dictatorial attitude both to players and managers. They are being paid more than enough !

[bighairydave]

2 hours ago, BIG AL said:

Perhaps it would help if refs had a much less dictatorial attitude both to players and managers. They are being paid more than enough !

The claim is to be more like this though! I believe there should be some common sense. 

 

Pay has also stayed the same for a while now, while expenses has decreased and been capped after a referee's meeting suggested this would he good to save clubs money and allow officials the chance to go to more clubs.

[ECPL]

Does not apply to pre season friendly games then.  The big blond Torquay defender against Saltash was so loud and vile with his shouts that you would have heard him in Plymouth.  result referee did nothing so the guy got louder and louder.  So much for new FA rules.  The simplest way for any referee to deal with the problem is to speak to both teams before the match about what he will not accept.  Once the game has started, a quick warning and a message to the bench, if no notice taken then give a yellow card, if persists then a second yellow and off.  Simple really, but I wonder how many referees will have the balls to deal with it.  But silly me, I thought that was what they were supposed to do anyway so what has changed.   An expletive given in ones own self disgust is one thing but now it seems everyone wants his tuppence worth.  

[bighairydave]

27 minutes ago, ECPL said:

Does not apply to pre season friendly games then.  The big blond Torquay defender against Saltash was so loud and vile with his shouts that you would have heard him in Plymouth.  result referee did nothing so the guy got louder and louder.  So much for new FA rules.  The simplest way for any referee to deal with the problem is to speak to both teams before the match about what he will not accept.  Once the game has started, a quick warning and a message to the bench, if no notice taken then give a yellow card, if persists then a second yellow and off.  Simple really, but I wonder how many referees will have the balls to deal with it.  But silly me, I thought that was what they were supposed to do anyway so what has changed.   An expletive given in ones own self disgust is one thing but now it seems everyone wants his tuppence worth.  

There shouldn't be any need to go and talk to the players before the game. They should already know what is acceptable and what is not. The players and club officials are as much to blame as the match officials.

[B Manning]

ECPL, since when has Foul,Abusive or Offensive language been a yellow card, you only have one option and that's a straight red.

[Guest]

Why's all this being put on referees? 

The clubs should be enforcing these regulations down. You are all Charter Standard clubs, you are happy to carry the FA C-S badge, happy to accept the balls, plaque and certificates etc but many aren't as willing to enforce one thing that the FA Charter Standard stands for.... Respect.

Enforce good behaviour at your clubs. Managers, be on the sidelines SETTING the GOOD example to your players. If they don't follow your lead, pull them off. If they start gobbing off, pull them off. Warn them of their conduct!

 

It is not just down to referees to enforce the Laws of the Game and to crack down on the poor behaviour that has been evident within recent seasons. Managers, set an example to your players. If your players don't follow your example, take them off or just get rid of them. Committees (good committees where the manager isn't the chairman/secretary and cleaner)... Take action on offending managers. It's easy.

Set a good example to your clubs members, dont expect the referees to do that for you, they just deal with it (hopefully). I for one certainly deal with it when refereeing.

[Richard Rundle]

I'm all for a crackdown on language and the like, the "f" word in particular can be used several times within a sentence (often by keepers shouting at their defence) and it is completely unnecessary.
.

The referees do though have to be 100% certain of what they have heard. The only time I saw a player dismissed for language last year actually shouted "what's the difference ref?" (I could hear that from the sideline) and got sent off because the ref thought the player had accused him of being a d....head

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Richard Rundle said:

I'm all for a crackdown on language and the like, the "f" word in particular can be used several times within a sentence (often by keepers shouting at their defence) and it is completely unnecessary.
.

The referees do though have to be 100% certain of what they have heard. The only time I saw a player dismissed for language last year actually shouted "what's the difference ref?" (I could hear that from the sideline) and got sent off because the ref thought the player had accused him of being a d....head

Richard, understandably that could be annoying. But, the fact he made a comment to the referee questioning his decision (in a sense) opened him up for disciplinary.

I played for my club yesterday, during the team talk I took five minutes to explain to the team about the new law changes "if a decision goes against us that you feel is a bit random, just accept it as it may be down to the changes". I also advised them on the new FA directive. Easy game for our ref yesterday. That's all it takes.

Im not the manager but I pride myself on a good discipline record. As a referee, I also feel it's my duty to protect the referee on the field at the time, so I always tell our players to just get on with the game and ask no questions. If they don't put themselves in the position where they can get in trouble, then they won't get any surprises  Thankfully we have a good manager and players who take that on board more often than not

[THE BALD ONE]

What team do you play for Dangerous

[Dave Deacon]

22 minutes ago, THE BALD ONE said:

What team do you play for Dangerous

New Inn Titans - Trelawny Division 4

[Guest]

1 hour ago, THE BALD ONE said:

What team do you play for Dangerous

Player and secretary for New Inn Titans (new club) and just a genuinely good guy 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

14 hours ago, Richard Rundle said:

I'm all for a crackdown on language and the like, the "f" word in particular can be used several times within a sentence (often by keepers shouting at their defence) and it is completely unnecessary.
.

The referees do though have to be 100% certain of what they have heard. The only time I saw a player dismissed for language last year actually shouted "what's the difference ref?" (I could hear that from the sideline) and got sent off because the ref thought the player had accused him of being a d....head

Bad hearing as well as bad eyesight (!) that ref is gonna have some fun.

[ECPL]

Oh dear B Manning.  Why are you in the game for goodness sake.  If you send off every player who swears you would not end up with enough players to complete a match.   So tell me if you are an advocate of a straight red card for swearing HOW MANY PLAYERS DID YOU SEND OFF LAST SEASON FOR THAT OFFENSE,  If you haven't sent any off for that then you are not doing your job properly as you imply.  It boils down to common sense, if you are an autocrat then you are in the game for the wrong reason.    A player mis kicks a ball and swears at himself oh F*** it, so that's a straight red card is it.  I know what your reply will be . IF IT IS AIMED AT AN OFFICIAL.  But for goodness sake, When I was a whistle blower and awarded something that someone disagreed with like for F*** sake ref.  Would I have sent him off.  NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have run alongside him and told him to cut it out and get on with the game. Referees now act like traffic policeman by pointing to all parts of the pitch while wasting time and telling players off.   Yes foul language is offensive and I am an ex Dockyardy and ex serviceman, I rarely use it and I don't expect anyone else to either but that is unfortunately life today.  If a player repeatedly uses the F word then yes you punish him.  If the vitriol is aimed at the referee then yes give him a yellow card, NOT A STRAIGHT RED, only if he makes an aggressive advance to the referee.  And again there is nothing more infuriating to a player than to see a referee mistake a mistake and then stands his ground.  I have said on this forum before. If you have made a contentious decision then you run as far away as you can.  If a player is daft enough to follow you and abuse you then he deserves what he gets.  Also if you are unhappy with the comments of players then go to the bench and tell them that any more and you will take action.  It is then up to the bench to ensure that players do not overstep the mark.  If as you say you would award a straight red card for foul language then I would suggest you give up the whistle.      

 

How many times have you seen a player unhappy at a decision and his immediate response is to lash out with his tongue, the referee then calls him over and spends anything up to a minute dressing him down instead of using his common sense.  I see it so often now and some referees make it harder for themselves by their actions which then not only upsets the players but the paying customers as well.

Like a number of people have already said, CONSISTENCY that is all people want.  In any case, by the amount of changes in the law a referee even in lower league football will need to have a law degree before even taking up the whistle.  A lot of people will say without referees there would be no game.  Let us put it another way, if there were no players then again there would be no game. And it used to be such a simple game. 

[B Manning]

Dearest ECPL , why throw your teddy out of the pram and have a lunatic rant at me, all I have posted is the law regarding foul/abusive or offensive language , it's a straight red card,yellow is not an option,now as a supposed ex referee you should know that already. No where in my post have I stated what I actually do in those scenarios which you quoted. I think perhaps an apology is in order from you , but I doubt very much whether you could demean yourself to do that.

[Guest]

I'd much rather spend a minute or so giving players a dressing down and educating them (and the skipper) on how to conduct themselves on the pitch rather than sending him/her off or issuing a caution (depending on the circumstances and the infringement, of course). That's good refereeing in my eyes. Calm the situation, talk to the parties involved and bring the game back down to an acceptable level. No referee (I hope) purposely sets out to end the game with less than 22 players on the field. But when we talk about consistency, there are referees out there (as is often well documented) who follow the law to the letter, whilst others may act "in the spirit of the game".

[bighairydave]

7 hours ago, ECPL said:

Oh dear B Manning.  Why are you in the game for goodness sake.  If you send off every player who swears you would not end up with enough players to complete a match.   So tell me if you are an advocate of a straight red card for swearing HOW MANY PLAYERS DID YOU SEND OFF LAST SEASON FOR THAT OFFENSE,  If you haven't sent any off for that then you are not doing your job properly as you imply.  It boils down to common sense, if you are an autocrat then you are in the game for the wrong reason.    A player mis kicks a ball and swears at himself oh F*** it, so that's a straight red card is it.  I know what your reply will be . IF IT IS AIMED AT AN OFFICIAL.  But for goodness sake, When I was a whistle blower and awarded something that someone disagreed with like for F*** sake ref.  Would I have sent him off.  NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have run alongside him and told him to cut it out and get on with the game. Referees now act like traffic policeman by pointing to all parts of the pitch while wasting time and telling players off.   Yes foul language is offensive and I am an ex Dockyardy and ex serviceman, I rarely use it and I don't expect anyone else to either but that is unfortunately life today.  If a player repeatedly uses the F word then yes you punish him.  If the vitriol is aimed at the referee then yes give him a yellow card, NOT A STRAIGHT RED, only if he makes an aggressive advance to the referee.  And again there is nothing more infuriating to a player than to see a referee mistake a mistake and then stands his ground.  I have said on this forum before. If you have made a contentious decision then you run as far away as you can.  If a player is daft enough to follow you and abuse you then he deserves what he gets.  Also if you are unhappy with the comments of players then go to the bench and tell them that any more and you will take action.  It is then up to the bench to ensure that players do not overstep the mark.  If as you say you would award a straight red card for foul language then I would suggest you give up the whistle.      

 

How many times have you seen a player unhappy at a decision and his immediate response is to lash out with his tongue, the referee then calls him over and spends anything up to a minute dressing him down instead of using his common sense.  I see it so often now and some referees make it harder for themselves by their actions which then not only upsets the players but the paying customers as well.

Like a number of people have already said, CONSISTENCY that is all people want.  In any case, by the amount of changes in the law a referee even in lower league football will need to have a law degree before even taking up the whistle.  A lot of people will say without referees there would be no game.  Let us put it another way, if there were no players then again there would be no game. And it used to be such a simple game. 

Consistency and common sense will rarely end with the same result in afraid as everyone's take on a situation is slightly different. If someone swears directly at the referee then they should expect the punishment given to them.

 

If you did the same thing to somebody in the workplace I'm sure it wouldn't be ignored. I'm all for giving players chances when it's in frustration to themselves but when it is loud and directed at you it's hard to ignore as everybody sees this and thinks oh that's ok we can all do it. You then also get supporters complaining as many don't like to see or hear bad language.

[TURNIP TED]

Swearing at the ref / officials is unacceptable end of . Red card.  Why is this the only sport where you can get away with it ?

The refs decision is final and he is not going to change his mind , so what's the point having a go at him. Get over the decision and move on.

[ECPL]

Oh B Manning.  You are at it again.  Are you in the diplomatic corps because you never actually answer a question .  HOW MANY PLAYERS DID YOU SEND OFF LAST SEASON DUE TO FOUL AND ABUSIVE LANGUAGE.  You are telling us the law but how many times have you applied it.  You have given a blanket interpretation of the law.  So in your mind every player who swears is automatically given a red card. How silly is that.  So If in your wonderful career you say what the law is, how do you apply it.  Seems a simple question that you somehow do not seem to understand.    I am afraid it is you who should be apologizing to all as you never actually answer a straightforward question.  And no it is not a rant it is thought out argument something you don't seem to understand.  Just answer the question.   

[B Manning]

ECPL, I have not been asked a question and how I deal with your scenarios is not for a public forum, all I have stated that section S6 in LOAF is a red card not a yellow, if you yellow card a player for foul/abusive (S6) then you cannot send in a report which is factual. . Get back in your pram.

[pastyman]

6 hours ago, ECPL said:

Oh B Manning.  You are at it again.  Are you in the diplomatic corps because you never actually answer a question .  HOW MANY PLAYERS DID YOU SEND OFF LAST SEASON DUE TO FOUL AND ABUSIVE LANGUAGE.  You are telling us the law but how many times have you applied it.  You have given a blanket interpretation of the law.  So in your mind every player who swears is automatically given a red card. How silly is that.  So If in your wonderful career you say what the law is, how do you apply it.  Seems a simple question that you somehow do not seem to understand.    I am afraid it is you who should be apologizing to all as you never actually answer a straightforward question.  And no it is not a rant it is thought out argument something you don't seem to understand.  Just answer the question.   

WHY should an official accept foul and abusive language? If the Football association has introduced a law stating that foul and abusive language should be dealt with by a red card, well red card it is.

[Guest]

With regards to this, you have to use common sense. Are referee's going to send players off if they swear out of frustration (just missed an open goal, for example). No, I wouldn't. What I would do is have a quiet word with the player as we meet. A little warning. If he/she does it again, then you enter the realms of caution (again, would I send off a player for swearing in frustration? I'd try not to, in accordance with reffing "in the spirit of the game" as laid down in the Laws Of The Game). If the player continues, I'd have no qualms in dismissing.

I had it on numerous times last season, including in an under 14 game. Player messes up, swears loudly. I have a word. He does exactly the same thing a few moments later. Caution. There was nothing in it, just a simple "for f*** sake"... It's not threatening, abusive or aimed at anyone. But we have to think of the audience. I don't want to hear kids swearing, the smaller kids on the side don't need to hear it and the parents hopefully don't want their children to be subjected to it.

For me, the context and the demeanour is what would justify the necessary action I'd take. Anything aimed at me or my team, you're gone. Anything aimed at another player, you wouldn't go unpunished, obviously the approach I'd take would depend on what happens. Say c***, call me a cheat or question my integrity, it's an early shower.

No referee wants to send players off. But I will do what I feel is right at the time. 

I completely agree with the FA directive and I will enforce it, but common sense must prevail. That is accomplished on a case-by-case basis.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

All that you have just written dange'rous is called common sense, and that is all that is needed from referees, and players alike.

Although I do make an allowance for the passion involved, because when I played - I certainly had it in bucket loads.

5 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

 

In saying that, I watched a friendly tonight, within the first 5 minutes the centre half was booked for foul language, fell foul of the new directive already......did look awful harsh on the fella - seasons going to be fun methinks.

 

[Guest]

It's the only time I ever really swear... In frustration because for a split second, I think I'm good at football... I **** up... And then realise I'm still crap ??

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, Dange'rous said:

It's the only time I ever really swear... In frustration because for a split second, I think I'm good at football... I **** up... And then realise I'm still crap ??

At football - or reffing (?) or both (?)

[Guest]

Now that you come to mention it..... 

[ECPL]

Oh B Manning.  As I thought, you can spout all the laws you want except the commonsense one. . So you think that answering a question of how many have you sent off for bad language is now NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.   Oh and were you not the one at a game at Liskeard who had to approach his lineman to borrow his cards because you had left them in the dressing room. Bit difficult to give a card then.   You are typical of someone who has never done anything wrong, has officiated correctly, has gone by the rules and everyone who questions a referee is wrong and out of order.  Once again not a rant.  Just asking a question which you will not answer.  Sad really. 

[ECPL]

Oh B Manning.  As I thought, you can spout all the laws you want except the commonsense one. . So you think that answering a question of how many have you sent off for bad language is now NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.   Oh and were you not the one at a game at Liskeard who had to approach his lineman to borrow his cards because you had left them in the dressing room. Bit difficult to give a card then.   You are typical of someone who has never done anything wrong, has officiated correctly, has gone by the rules and everyone who questions a referee is wrong and out of order.  Once again not a rant.  Just asking a question which you will not answer.  Sad really. 

[bighairydave]

58 minutes ago, ECPL said:

Oh B Manning.  As I thought, you can spout all the laws you want except the commonsense one. . So you think that answering a question of how many have you sent off for bad language is now NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.   Oh and were you not the one at a game at Liskeard who had to approach his lineman to borrow his cards because you had left them in the dressing room. Bit difficult to give a card then.   You are typical of someone who has never done anything wrong, has officiated correctly, has gone by the rules and everyone who questions a referee is wrong and out of order.  Once again not a rant.  Just asking a question which you will not answer.  Sad really. 

I'd be more worried if he did know how many he sent off for OFFINABUS. Contrary to popular belief we don't all keep track of how many cards we may issue!

[Referee]

It will be an interesting season full of these applications of COMMON SENSE as well as games where it goes out of the window early on and LETTER OF THE LAW takes over for the man in black.

If people want CONSISTENCY, then that's fine. We stop the human approach and never play an advantage and every infringement or outspoken word stops play and cards get issued. 

I am not going to mention the team, as I reffed them a few months later with no dissent whatsoever, but I issued 10 counts of reported discipline (yellows, reds, emptying folk from the dugout, etc) and the team submitted all sorts of personal accusations about me and claimed that it was my fault that they were acting in frustration. I am not interested in further promotion at my current age and fitness levels but any ref that wished to seek promotion would have ended that aspiration there and then in August.

My rant/conclusion is that it is sometimes the most enjoyable way for me to spend a Saturday morning or Wednesday evening but sometimes we have to do an impossible job under extremely stressful conditions. I paid my registration fees for 2016-17 in April but I actually tossed a coin and spoke with my family this week to discuss whether or not It was a good idea for me to ref any more.

Fortunately, or unfortunately if you look at it another way, I received just enough encouragement from an ECFL official, a particular ref and a few Club Secretaries to give it another year and see how it goes. 

[Guest]

People think it's easy!

[Tommy Matthews]

It's that easy that the CCFA are turning new referees away from their doors every week! 

If we don't give them a bit more respect we'll all be shopping with the missus on Saturday afternoons as there won't be officials to referee the games we love to watch. 

I got frustrated with them when I was playing but I never swore at them and always shook their hand and thanked them after each match. Perhaps we could start there?