Decline of Cornish football clubs

[ontheball2014]

Looking at the present league table for the Carlsberg South West Peninsula League, two once successful clubs are propping up the league with one point a piece, having played thirteen games. Yes one point from thirteen.

For the league to operate, there has to be a top and a bottom, but there is currently a gap of thirty six points.

How have these to clubs been allowed to become the whipping boys of the league? Is it mismanagement or simply the  towns are no longer interested in their respective football clubs? In St Blazeys case, they have a small population(5,000) to call upon, but Newquay has a population of over 22,000, which rises to over 100,000 in the summer!

The Premier League has already lost Penzance and Liskeard, are we going to witness St Blazey and Newquay going the same way?

 

 

[stevieb]

In Newquay case at present it seems to be lack of players two games cancelled  one game in the combo very unusual in this league ,  afraid no club has a divine right to survive at any level there are several factors which have been happening in the Junior leagues for a while but senior teams haven't  had the same problem ,  higher level of local football is money  , after that  players availability , playing for managers , mates  delete where applicable , lack of support coming through the gates ,   committee members , volunteer getting older  these are some of the reasons  , at the Junior level no gate money self funding high rental on pitches  insurance kit wash sundries  ref fees ect , weekend work is now the norm college work , surfing  young ladies family commitment  fifa  computers .

[Lloydy]

In a side 'most of the time' there has to be a core of local players in the side, so when the other decide to play closer to home, or with their mates, the whole team doesn't fold. Having a team, playing in mid Cornwall, training in Ivybridge and being mostly of Plymouth players, is that really sustainable in the long run? There is also the pull of Soccer Saturday, a lunch time kick off, and an evening kick off to watch. Also, money, if a club can pay 2/3/4 players, you're going to be OK..... There are not many clubs these days where the whole squad play for a bit of travel money and a drink after the game. 

[quiksilver]

These two clubs have in the past had big budgets, big name managers and some Plymouth based players, as was said above its not sustainable. It will give you minimal short term success. Newquay as an example paid big money to get out of division 1 using 5-6 players from Plymouth, local players got fed up left to go to a club down the road. Money dried up, big name players and managers left, reserve and youth players not good enough for this level, therefore clubs in the s**t. 

No problem with big budgets but if you don't have contingency in place when that dries up your buggered and it all comes tumbling down. It mAy take a season or ten season but bubbles always burst and clubs need to plan for that eventuality. 

Being relegated and starting again isn't going to mean future success either, no clubs have been relegated and then come back to the premier swpl. 

[Mike Odgers]

Tavistock were relegated from the Premier in 2014--Then won the Div1 East in 2015 and are now a rebuilt force back in the Premier.

No club enjoys playing out of their depth and looking at the clubs in West Cornwall (Div1 West) there appears to be a good competitve nature between them with the added supporter interest.

[Goldeneye]

It's only going to get worse. People have fallen out of love with local football. When I started watching local football almost 50 years ago it was so much more fun than it is now. There were a lot more 'characters' playing the game who played with a smile on their face and had a joke with the spectators and the referee. Also there was nowhere near the amount of bad language there is now. Nowadays the players play with a scowl on their face and they and the managers hurl abuse at each other and the officials. There are some exceptions, but they're by far the minority. You reap what you sow!

[ECPL]

Plenty of problems but what are the solutions.  Football is booming at junior and youth level so how do we address the problem at senior level.  A number have mentioned how many Plymouth players are involved with especially Cornish clubs.  Does this mean there are not enough local talented players around.  I can go back umpteen years where I think the pub was the Cornwall Gate (correct me if I am wrong) the other side of the Tamar Bridge where the car park was jam packed with Plymouth players traveling west so nothing has changed there.  Is it the age we live in now where once a Saturday was football day now it seems there are so many distractions and TV and wives and girlfriends and families and working that has changed they way we approach a Saturday afternoon. I have no idea how to solve the problem but it is a worrying trend that has gone on for years.  TV has clouded our views over how we see the game.  We often look at our local players and officials and compare them with what we see on TV   Is that fair.  There is the escalating cost of running even the smallest of clubs.  Even just paying travel expenses can affect clubs financially and one the officials have been paid what clubs actually make a profit at the gate.   So many negatives and I am afraid not many solutions. 

   .     

[Lloydy]

There is nothing you can do!! Try and stop people sitting at home and watching a game of premier league football, as apposed to going up to some windy, wet, cold field and watching step 6/7 and below. Someone said in an above post that when he started watching 50 years ago.... No Sky Sports, there wasn't also 3 live games of football on, so back then, if you wanted to watch football, you went to a local game. On the swearing front, that is not going to change either, listen to a group of adolescent lads or girls these days and the language is just the norm. 

[stevieb]

Youth football may be going well but when it is time to step into adult football some can't get used to  not starting each week  or struggling balancing college or work  and some have played every weekend for several seasons ,  football in Cornwall has always played second fiddle to Rugby and cricket even though there are more playing football and leagues ,  we all like to remember the good old days when you counted down The days to your next game or even training , but television football has changed how we watch and participate locally ,  clubs and older fans will have to get used to this new era  and I am afraid  clubs will have to cut their cloth according to what finance they have in place , it will not get any easier for a while  until it levels out  , not easy for any club or members to be faced at any level with folding a team or club  but you don't know what you have until it is gone , I know personally when a club folds how hard it is face after all the effort to keep your head above water .

[quiksilver]

3 hours ago, Mike Odgers said:

Tavistock were relegated from the Premier in 2014--Then won the Div1 East in 2015 and are now a rebuilt force back in the Premier.

No club enjoys playing out of their depth and looking at the clubs in West Cornwall (Div1 West) there appears to be a good competitve nature between them with the added supporter interest.

And tavy did that with a big budget!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

To much football on the TV.

To much organised football from 6 years of age.

Everything given free.

All youngsters being told they are better than they actually are.

To many substitutes.

Volunteers disappearing.

Laptops.

Mobile phones.

Cheap holidays.

Everyone has a car.

Everyone has a divine right to play every game.

[pastyman]

Is the whole "matchday experience" attractive enough to encourage new or past supporters?

I have visited grounds that have had as much life a the local cemetery!  No music, no atmosphere and no supporters. Perhaps clubs should look at what they have to offer and make their own minds up.

Sadly,  there are few people who want to get involved these days in the running of their local football  club.  The few that are involved often get frustrated and disenchanted. They ask themselves,  do I need this anymore? 

This forum is a great platform  to encourage  people to get involved  and its free.  

[Tommy Matthews]

Add to this the emergence of six-a-side leagues for mates to play for fun midweek with no pressure to train with their clubs and have weekends to themselves/with their partners/going on stag weekends, choose an appropriate option. 

As good as these leagues are for participation they are also killing 11-a-side football throughout the country. 

Things have changed and can't be unchanged and pretty much all the aforementioned reasons have a negative impact on the football we know and love yet I believe playing numbers are still good just not in the way most of us would like. 

Sad to see Newquay struggling. Not so long ago their youth system was the envy of most. Jim Hilton had a conveyor belt of players playing for all 4 adult sides and now he's gone what's happened? Coincidence or not I don't know but he's now putting a proper club together at St Mawgan. Don't know quite how a man who devoted so much time to to Newquay and Atlantic prior to that was allowed to leave but I guess there must be a reason. 

Good luck to Newquay and Godolphin and hope you both have successful seasons. 

[leedsunited]

It is easy for anybody to comment on this topic until it actually happens to your own club, & believe me it will happen to every club at SOME POINT. My affiliation with Bodmin suggests as a football/social club we are comfortable at present, but that is down to a few hardcore individuals (like you get at a few clubs) who go out in search of sponsorship etc & do a fantastic job. Our situation will not last forever. Now, St.Blazey have been talked about on here, why do Cornish players not want to play for the club, simple answer is in the last few seasons the club has paid out large sums of money(reportedly) to very average plymouth based players to finish in dissapointing league positions, who are not better than the local talent on offer to them at Sticker, St.Dennis etc. I know of at least one individual on the committee who it always concerned down at St.Blazey but it was never rectified (until Alan Carey took over last season then i believe he got rid of them all apart from the guy Bello & it was virtually made up of all local based players (Reportedly!). In St.Blazeys case, if local players have chose to play at Sticker, St.Dennis etc over their club then i have heard supporters in the bar on a sunday ask why? Answer is simple, St.Blazey over the years have missed out on a good crop of local based players who were local & maybe interested in playing for the club, but did not due to them having such an influx from Plymouth,  now they are crying out for anyone to turn up with a pair of boots to play but the local lads have turned their heads & doing well at clubs in the lower league. Hence now the club is full of plymouth based players, not won a game all season & joint bottom of the table, where do they go from here I have heard many of them ask? 

[Mike Odgers]

"It is easy for anybody to comment on this topic until it actually happens to your own club, & believe me it will happen to every club at SOME POINT. My affiliation with Bodmin suggests as a football/social club we are comfortable at present, but that is down to a few hardcore individuals (like you get at a few clubs) who go"  Quote

A good example "Leeds" the club (Gornal Athletic) that knocked out Bodmin at Priory Park in the Vase in 2012-13 and went on to the Quarter Final is now recognised with the worst record in English football at present

In the step 6 West Midland Premier League they have a record P.13-L.13 (F.4--A70) and last Saturday went down 1-5 in the Vase.

[leedsunited]

Very good example Mike,  Gornal were a very good side, shows it can happen to any club. Heard today that Dave Pearce has the St.Blazey job now on a full time basis after many weeks caretaking after the departure of Alan Carey. Good luck Dave, loyalty shown by both parties, some stability at the club maybe now with Dave taking the helm that nobody else seemed to of wanted.  He is certainly old guard & I remember Dave  down at Blaise Park, with hair back in 1980!

[BIG AL]

3 hours ago, Keith B said:

Mismanagement, lack of interest and money. Sadly.

I believe that there's still a lot of enthusiasm at grass roots. That said - it may depend upon where you live though.

I predict that within 10 years, senior football as we know it will have disappeared in Cornwall and there will be a few teams playing for a pint and a pasty ! Probably this would create a better atmosphere within the clubs anyway.

[BIG AL]

Just now, Keith B said:

I sincerely hope you're wrong BIG AL. A pint and a pasty now - yes please !

I hope so as well but looking back at the last 10 years, look how the gates have declined - an attendance now of a 100 is a good gate, back then that would have been 300 if not more. It is a shame, but no money thru the gate leads to a weaker team and poorer ground facilities.

[somersetspur]

And it has started at the top,with Cornwall's premier club.

Sad times.

[spark]

Sad times, the biggest problem is no player wants to travel.

The standard at this level is now got to be the worst I have ever seen. Lots of players are now playing local.

Money don't count for anything either these days it is all about time away from the family and long away days

[BIG AL]

7 minutes ago, spark said:

Sad times, the biggest problem is no player wants to travel.

The standard at this level is now got to be the worst I have ever seen. Lots of players are now playing local.

Money don't count for anything either these days it is all about time away from the family and long away days

I have always questioned the satisfaction of long trips into Devon such as Exmouth, Witheridge etc., even more so on bank holidays weekends - what is it achieving ?

The quality of football has worsened and the clubs in Devon visited are of a no better standard. As it stands , the top 4 clubs now are still going to be he top 4 in 5 years time.

That is down to money, but not money coming thru the gates. I can see no solution except lessening the financial burden of long distance travel and reverting to a SW League set up within Cornwall and along the borders of Devon.

[cornishteddyboy]

People talk about player loyalty but there is also much less loyalty off the pitch. Years ago you were born, raised and died in your town or village. You worked locally, drank in your local and played locally for your local team, watched by your kith and kin, clubs run by locals who had been with the club as players themselves.

Nowadays because people can move home much more easily so there are fewer local people to look after these local clubs and hence also players do not feel an affinity towards their local side. 

[panda]

I remember the good old days of the south western league when the league had local teams on the border like Teignmouth .Torquay Reserves St Lukes college and Newton Abbot oh and Appledore !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[unitedrhino]

If you had a rule one club only and if you wanted to transfer you wouldn't be able to do until the transfer window.

You could also bring in a rule only 1 transfer per person, per League

September / November / January / March - end of every 2nd month.

[cornishteddyboy]

2 minutes ago, unitedrhino said:

If you had a rule one club only and if you wanted to transfer you wouldn't be able to do until the transfer window.

You could also bring in a rule only 1 transfer per person, per League

September / November / January / March - end of every 2nd month.

Will make no difference as players will just make weekly excuses not to play. They will pick and choose their matches.

On 10/16/2016 at 16:55, Tommy Matthews said:

Add to this the emergence of six-a-side leagues for mates to play for fun midweek with no pressure to train with their clubs and have weekends to themselves/with their partners/going on stag weekends, choose an appropriate option. 

Anyone who knows me will I know I totally agree with Tommy re 6-a-side leagues. I have been banging the drum for years about them. These mid-week leagues are killing local 11-a-side football, and to make it worse some are commercial and make a profit for the organisers, something weekend football doesn't.

[Teign View]

I went to Newquay v Launceston last week and I have to be honest it was a pretty dire experience. A lot of this would have been down to the fact I failed to sleep the night before, so I was hanging out at the game.

That said, Newquay were dire to watch, possibly the worst team I have ever seen, and I have supported Bolton Wanderers all my life and have had to suffer Gary Megson, Owen Coyle, and Dougie Freedman these last few years. It was my first time at Mount Wise and I had travelled from Teignmouth in Devon to watch the game. It was always something I wanted to do, and I had a free weekend from the children and rugby (sorry to mention the oval ball game here, but I watch Teignmouth RFC most weeks).

The day started promisingly enough (apart from lack of sleep), and Holywell Bay was lovely. However, I turned up at the ground and though everybody seemed friendly enough, there was no real enthusiasm  about the game from the home faithful. That is understandable really, but it doesn't really feel like a match day at Mount Wise. The club house was grim and didn't really feel like a football club bar. Again, that maybe down to the dire situation at the club. But if you want to bring people in, you need to make it an enjoyable experience.

I shamefully left a full half hour before the end of the game, the first time I had ever left a game early. I was very tired, and wanted to get a meal before jumping on the train back home. If I had a slept, I would never have left early, but the thought of missing the 5.20 train and waiting two hours for the next one wasn't appealing. The football certainly wasn't worth it. Launceston were rubbish, and had the whiniest striker I had seen for a long time. Newquay were just awful, way out of their depth, and it was embarrassing just how bad they were.

The thing is... when I am not watching Teignmouth RFC, I will be watching Newquay AFC because there is something about the club that grabs me. That thing supporters of all clubs get where something takes hold and it pulls you in.

[leedsunited]

34 minutes ago, Teign View said:

I went to Newquay v Launceston last week and I have to be honest it was a pretty dire experience. A lot of this would have been down to the fact I failed to sleep the night before, so I was hanging out at the game.

That said, Newquay were dire to watch, possibly the worst team I have ever seen, and I have supported Bolton Wanderers all my life and have had to suffer Gary Megson, Owen Coyle, and Dougie Freedman these last few years. It was my first time at Mount Wise and I had travelled from Teignmouth in Devon to watch the game. It was always something I wanted to do, and I had a free weekend from the children and rugby (sorry to mention the oval ball game here, but I watch Teignmouth RFC most weeks).

The day started promisingly enough (apart from lack of sleep), and Holywell Bay was lovely. However, I turned up at the ground and though everybody seemed friendly enough, there was no real enthusiasm  about the game from the home faithful. That is understandable really, but it doesn't really feel like a match day at Mount Wise. The club house was grim and didn't really feel like a football club bar. Again, that maybe down to the dire situation at the club. But if you want to bring people in, you need to make it an enjoyable experience.

I shamefully left a full half hour before the end of the game, the first time I had ever left a game early. I was very tired, and wanted to get a meal before jumping on the train back home. If I had a slept, I would never have left early, but the thought of missing the 5.20 train and waiting two hours for the next one wasn't appealing. The football certainly wasn't worth it. Launceston were rubbish, and had the whiniest striker I had seen for a long time. Newquay were just awful, way out of their depth, and it was embarrassing just how bad they were.

The thing is... when I am not watching Teignmouth RFC, I will be watching Newquay AFC because there is something about the club that grabs me. That thing supporters of all clubs get where something takes hold and it pulls you in.

Should of seen St.Blazeys 10-0 defeat today against Tiverton Reserves, that would of definatley opened your eyes to embarrassment!

[Teign View]

10 hours ago, leedsunited said:

Should of seen St.Blazeys 10-0 defeat today against Tiverton Reserves, that would of definatley opened your eyes to embarrassment!

Maybe I will get that next week.... Newquay travel to Tivvy. Mind, they were pretty embarrassing at Tavistock yesterday too.