NEWQUAY VS SALTASH

[100%cornish]

Watched Newquay vs Saltash this afternoon in the 1st half Newquay where superb in holding a fine Saltash side but at the start of the 2nd half it was the same old Newquay the no3was at fault and and the goalie should od stopped the cross landing at RyAN Richards feet who wasnt going to miss such a easy chance after that goal the Newquay players heads dropped and it looked like Saltash would score every time they attacked  and could of scored more than the 5 they did the n07 ORioran had the beating of NEWQUAYS  3 EVERY TIME .In the 1st half Danny Ohagan was playing well and i was impressed by Newquays no9 but in the 2nd half Saltash Dominated and played some lovely football and my mom goes to Sam Farrant but the whole Saltash team played really well was nice watching wingers and with 2 top strikers in Sam HUGHES and Ryan Richards up front there was only going to be 1 winner . If my dad was still alive it would break his heart what is happening to his beloved Newquay team also my grandad who was on the committee many years ago to be honest the 2nd half display from Newquay was a embarassment they where so poor but really good in the 1st half Newquay needs some help with that defence they got they where bloody awful Sorry Newquay for being so blunt 

 

[baldy]

Nothing wrong with telling it as it is, Steve. First half was encouraging but we knew it wouldn't last. 4 good signings recently. Plenty of points to play for.

[Cornishfan74]

Who have Newquay signed? Would imagine there still missing players with injury and definitely today with work.

[pastyman]

Feel sorry for Newquay, propping up the league, poor attendance and even Nemesis not his usual vocal self. This club looks destined for relegation along with St Blazey.

Give the Newquay boys credit, they certainly gave their all in the first half and didn't look like they had already shipped seventy goal this season. But in the second half, there was only going to be one winner and "the ashes" upped their games and came away with all three points.

The town of Newquay needs to get behind their football team, as its sad to see another Cornish club in this mess.

 

[Paul]

Don't write St Blazey off just yet!!

[Cornish Brazillian]

Agree that the whole town needs to get behind Newquay and would have been there today if I hadn't been visiting a sick friend.

Apart from turning up on the day though, I'm not sure what we can do.

Any suggestions?

Perhaps some new blood on the committee? Can ex-players be persuaded to help? 

Relegation will be a disaster and it may take a long time for the club to recover.....

 

[pastyman]

Newquay are no different to lots of clubs, the supporter numbers either demonstrate that the local community have little/no interest in their respective football clubs or they have something more important to do in their lives or they don't know a match is on. 

Even success doesn't guarantee large attendances, as demonstrated at Bodmin Town. Here is a club that has had many successful seasons and the attendances are very poor.

Perhaps clubs should get out into the community, the schools and town centers .  More through the gate will create more atmosphere, bring more money to the club and perhaps more chance of survival.

 

[100%cornish]

What stood out a mile this afternoon is Newquay need a experianced Centre half maybe the G would help them out Ollie Pinnell would make a hell of a differnce to the Newquay defence the defence they got there now is a shambles so poor this afternoon Sam Cooper would be a good choice to get back from Wadebridge .The crowd was so poor this afternon Newquay is a proud team and more people should watch them when i dont watch the G i go to Mt Wise to watch them maybe it is that the town has 2 teams 1 doing ok and the other just getting beaten every week it will be a disaster if Newquay and St Blazey get relegated i think St Blazey will do the great escape again but the nails are going into the Newquay coffin already cant see them escaping with that defence Bad result for the G today as well they are missing Sean in goal but the young lad Gilbert can only get better but hes certainly not Sean Semmens who made his presence felt 

[leedsunited]

I can see Newquay & St.Blazey both being relegated I know Newquay have a game in hand on Blazey but with two getting relegated I think the 10 point gap already is to much to ask

2 minutes ago, leedsunited said:

I can see Newquay & St.Blazey both being relegated I know Newquay have a game in hand on Blazey but with two getting relegated I think the 10 point gap already is to much to ask

St.Blazeys 16th consecutive loss this season I was just informed down the club sipping my apple sourz & eldoflower. The concern they have not got the clientele this season like they had last season to get them out of jail

[cornish leg end]

To be fair to both clubs. this isn't the first time the last couple season they have struggled. it would do them good to be relegated and rebuild things. they have good players but they are playing at the top level in Cornwall I think playing down a league will boost them and bring them on for a return to them prem. Football isn't what it was in Cornwall atm people do seem to have lost interest. its the same people that turn up to watch their local club each week. No one from the younger group are interested in watching especially when things aren't going great. Hope both clubs are planning long term no point in getting out of the relegation zone only to b down there again next season.  

[derek martyn]

2 hours ago, cornishlegend said:

To be fair to both clubs. this isn't the first time the last couple season they have struggled. it would do them good to be relegated and rebuild things. they have good players but they are playing at the top level in Cornwall I think playing down a league will boost them and bring them on for a return to them prem. Football isn't what it was in Cornwall atm people do seem to have lost interest. its the same people that turn up to watch their local club each week. No one from the younger group are interested in watching especially when things aren't going great. Hope both clubs are planning long term no point in getting out of the relegation zone only to b down there again next season.  

No club is better off going down to a lower standard of football, certainly not clubs the size of St Blazey and Newquay imo. 

Wadebridge, Penzance, Porthleven Liskeard etc all lost their Premier division status and now they can't get back up. Falmouth are a great example to struggling clubs. They had several bad seasons but fought tooth and nail to cling on in the top flight and now they appear to have come through the worst and are looking strong.again.

 

I do however feel that the current Peninsula league format doesn't help clubs due to the travelling distances involved for teams in the Premier division. I think that it would be better to have a Cornwall League and a Devon League with maybe a two leg play off at the end of the season between the 2 league winners. I cant really see a down side to that but many advantages including savings for clubs with travelling costs and better gates due to more localised fixtures which always generate more local interest and invariably attract a higher number of away supporters.

The other big drain on clubs in the Premier division is the cost of 3 match officials and i think this really needs to be looked at.  Too often match officials are being sent from too far afield which increases the ever growing financial pressure on clubs due to having to pay their increased travelling expenses. I remember one particular Godolphin match when a very large percentage of  the gate revenues were swallowed up because some bright spark thought it would be a good idea to send 3 match officials all the way from Callington and Plymouth. Match officials travelling long distances is an issue which I feel the Peninsula league need to take seriously and help its member clubs out by taking it up with the CCFA and referees appointment secretary in order to help clubs in future.  

With all the money generated through fines, you would have thought the CCFFA could afford to contribute  towards the cost of clubs paying 3 match officials in the Premier division, i don't see why they shouldn't.

 

 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, derek martyn said:

No club is better off going down to a lower standard of football, certainly not clubs the size of St Blazey and Newquay imo. 

Wadebridge, Penzance, Porthleven Liskeard etc all lost their Premier division status and now they can't get back up. Falmouth are a great example to struggling clubs. They had several bad seasons but fought tooth and nail to cling on in the top flight and now they appear to have come through the worst and are looking strong.again.

 

I do however feel that the current Peninsula league format doesn't help clubs due to the travelling distances involved for teams in the Premier division. I think that it would be better to have a Cornwall League and a Devon League with maybe a two leg play off at the end of the season between the 2 league winners. I cant really see a down side to that but many advantages including savings for clubs with travelling costs and better gates due to more localised fixtures which always generate more local interest and invariably attract a higher number of away supporters.

The other big drain on clubs in the Premier division is the cost of 3 match officials and i think this really needs to be looked at.  Too often match officials are being sent from too far afield which increases the ever growing financial pressure on clubs due to having to pay their increased travelling expenses. I remember one particular Godolphin match when a very large percentage of  the gate revenues were swallowed up because some bright spark thought it would be a good idea to send 3 match officials all the way from Callington and Plymouth. Match officials travelling long distances is an issue which I feel the Peninsula league need to take seriously and help its member clubs out by taking it up with the CCFA and referees appointment secretary in order to help clubs in future.  

With all the money generated through fines, you would have thought the CCFFA could afford to contribute  towards the cost of clubs paying 3 match officials in the Premier division, i don't see why they shouldn't.

 

 

 

Porthleven have never played in the Premier Division. 

[BIG AL]

3 minutes ago, Willow Tree said:

Porthleven have never played in the Premier Division. 

I have been saying the same thing for over 2 years and it is more than ever coming true. The standard of football is only average compared to good some 10 years ago before the swpl was introduced. The cost of officials and there huge travelling remumeration is also ridiculous and seriously wants looking at by the cornwall fa - though no doubt they will not be the slightest interested. No doubt, as always my observations will be shouted down; there is now proving to be an awful lot of truth in them. Time will tell !

[Dave Deacon]

22 minutes ago, BIG AL said:

I have been saying the same thing for over 2 years and it is more than ever coming true. The standard of football is only average compared to good some 10 years ago before the swpl was introduced. The cost of officials and there huge travelling remumeration is also ridiculous and seriously wants looking at by the cornwall fa

Have to agree with you Big Al - but it's just not the standard of the SWPL but everywhere across the board. How many live matches on TV are actually quite boring affairs? Only yesterday on the radio there was a discussion about the number of teams now that only play one striker and it's not a surprise if that striker only touches the ball about five times in a game! That philosophy will filter through to local football in a few years and the football we watch will become as boring too.

I doubt if the CCFA, on their own, really have much say in what fees are levied. Do the County FAs collectively make a protest, because this could possibly be the only way they can have an impact. I suspect the FA have no idea what is really happening in our levels of football, even though they produce all the regular surveys etc.

[bighairydave]

1 hour ago, BIG AL said:

I have been saying the same thing for over 2 years and it is more than ever coming true. The standard of football is only average compared to good some 10 years ago before the swpl was introduced. The cost of officials and there huge travelling remumeration is also ridiculous and seriously wants looking at by the cornwall fa - though no doubt they will not be the slightest interested. No doubt, as always my observations will be shouted down; there is now proving to be an awful lot of truth in them. Time will tell !

Devon FA must also sort this out, it's a cross-county league.

[Dave Deacon]

2 hours ago, BIG AL said:

I have been saying the same thing for over 2 years and it is more than ever coming true. The standard of football is only average compared to good some 10 years ago before the swpl was introduced. The cost of officials and there huge travelling remumeration is also ridiculous and seriously wants looking at by the cornwall fa - though no doubt they will not be the slightest interested. No doubt, as always my observations will be shouted down; there is now proving to be an awful lot of truth in them. Time will tell !

I understand that the Referees fees & mileage have been frozen for last 2 agm's, Paul Murphy is doing a great job and average travel costs down 17.8% last season. Also Next step up is £40/£25 compared to us at £33/£23 & same mileage.

[Mike Odgers]

QUOTE No club is better off going down to a lower standard of football, certainly not clubs the size of St Blazey and Newquay imo. 

Wadebridge, Penzance, Porthleven Liskeard etc all lost their Premier division status and now they can't get back up. Falmouth are a great example to struggling clubs. They had several bad seasons but fought tooth and nail to cling on in the top flight and now they appear to have come through the worst and are looking strong.again.  QUOTE

 

Although Falmouth may have just turned the corner there was not a lot of enjoyment in those seasons hovering just outside the relegation zone.

In my opinion three to four seasons wasted when the club could have rebuilt with enthusiasm on and off the pitch.

 

[cornish leg end]

1 hour ago, Keith B said:

I'm getting sick to death of people on this forum moaning and saying how poor the standard of football is in the SWPL and lower leagues and how good it used to be.

Well if it's true, and I disagree personally, you know what the answer is. Managers/coaches, players and all those who have a say in local club football, must up their game. If a coach or player isn't on fire for his club's success - get rid of him - and find someone who is still on fire for the game. I don't believe any young lad turns up to play football for his local club with the attitude of ''I just want to play football''. Every lad wants to be a winner - if he doesn't, then don't sign him on. Surely no lad starts a game with the attitude ''oh it's just a game'', they must start with a fire inside to win the match. If all eleven players started with that attitude, games would be more attractive to watch and the locals would want to be part of that. 

It's up to coaches to install that burning desire to win games. The coach must sort out who among his players is fit and who isn't and to chase fitness levels in the whole team. I've said it over and over again - players must be fit. Get fit before the season starts. If a player is fit, his skill levels and his game will improve and the team's performance will improve. A fit player will enjoy his game and team fitness and enjoyment is what it's all about. 

For goodness sake stop being so damned negative about the whole football scene - get off your backsides and do something about raising the standards of football throughout the county. Negativity sows the seeds of apathy and that will destroy the game we love if we don't raise up a passion for local football again.

Rant over.

 

Keith I have to agree with what your saying here. It all comes down to attitude and the desire to win. Fitness is key. there are a lot of good players playing the the lower leagues even junior football that could play up the top but there fitness isn't there. Motivation with people isn't the same as it was.

All the money the FA make they should put some back into clubs making coaches, managers better. Lots of ideas on this thread but not a lot changes. 

[Martin Eddy]

How many managers in Cornish football are qualified coaches. If they were and get stuck surely they could seek help through the system.

[leedsunited]

15 hours ago, derek martyn said:

No club is better off going down to a lower standard of football, certainly not clubs the size of St Blazey and Newquay imo. 

Wadebridge, Penzance, Porthleven Liskeard etc all lost their Premier division status and now they can't get back up. Falmouth are a great example to struggling clubs. They had several bad seasons but fought tooth and nail to cling on in the top flight and now they appear to have come through the worst and are looking strong.again.

 

I do however feel that the current Peninsula league format doesn't help clubs due to the travelling distances involved for teams in the Premier division. I think that it would be better to have a Cornwall League and a Devon League with maybe a two leg play off at the end of the season between the 2 league winners. I cant really see a down side to that but many advantages including savings for clubs with travelling costs and better gates due to more localised fixtures which always generate more local interest and invariably attract a higher number of away supporters.

The other big drain on clubs in the Premier division is the cost of 3 match officials and i think this really needs to be looked at.  Too often match officials are being sent from too far afield which increases the ever growing financial pressure on clubs due to having to pay their increased travelling expenses. I remember one particular Godolphin match when a very large percentage of  the gate revenues were swallowed up because some bright spark thought it would be a good idea to send 3 match officials all the way from Callington and Plymouth. Match officials travelling long distances is an issue which I feel the Peninsula league need to take seriously and help its member clubs out by taking it up with the CCFA and referees appointment secretary in order to help clubs in future.  

With all the money generated through fines, you would have thought the CCFFA could afford to contribute  towards the cost of clubs paying 3 match officials in the Premier division, i don't see why they shouldn't.

 

 

 

Derek, without knowing circumstances, being a local guy who has managed some good sides, have you thought about helping Newquay out in any way? Would be a big challenge?

[100%cornish]

Think it would take more than Derek to sort out the Newquay side Alec Ferguson isnt doing much maybe he would fancy a trip to the sea side lol ,Just hoping Newquay dont go out of the league but there will be a lot more heavy defeats at mt wise b4 the season is out start with the defence they just didnt have a clue against Saltash it would be good if Derek Martin took over at mt wise and had McKellar as his assitant but something needs to be done soon .Pity couldnt go back  to the old south western league local clubs dont need tobe going over the Tamar in the middle of the winter this league needs  a overall the teams that do win the league choose not to go up anyway so what is the point of it 

[leedsunited]

Would Derek take the position if it came his way 100%Cornish? Would Newquay fans, yourself/The Judge/ Bazzer like Derek to  be the man to try & save Newquay? 

[St John]

20 hours ago, Keith B said:

I'm getting sick to death of people on this forum moaning and saying how poor the standard of football is in the SWPL and lower leagues and how good it used to be.

Well if it's true, and I disagree personally, you know what the answer is. Managers/coaches, players and all those who have a say in local club football, must up their game. If a coach or player isn't on fire for his club's success - get rid of him - and find someone who is still on fire for the game. I don't believe any young lad turns up to play football for his local club with the attitude of ''I just want to play football''. Every lad wants to be a winner - if he doesn't, then don't sign him on. Surely no lad starts a game with the attitude ''oh it's just a game'', they must start with a fire inside to win the match. If all eleven players started with that attitude, games would be more attractive to watch and the locals would want to be part of that. 

It's up to coaches to install that burning desire to win games. The coach must sort out who among his players is fit and who isn't and to chase fitness levels in the whole team. I've said it over and over again - players must be fit. Get fit before the season starts. If a player is fit, his skill levels and his game will improve and the team's performance will improve. A fit player will enjoy his game and team fitness and enjoyment is what it's all about. 

For goodness sake stop being so damned negative about the whole football scene - get off your backsides and do something about raising the standards of football throughout the county. Negativity sows the seeds of apathy and that will destroy the game we love if we don't raise up a passion for local football again.

Rant over.

 

I have an example of lowering standards. Liskeard and Saltash used to be highflyers in the Great Mills Western League and were much superior to all of the teams in the Jewson South Western League. Opponents such as Mangotsfield, Chippenham, Clevedon, Weston-Super-Mare, Tiverton etc have all moved up the pyramid and the fortunes of the two Cornish clubs have been a bit different to that. Liskeard and Saltash were the teams to play for back then and if you weren't good enough, you played for Bodmin, or maybe Launceston in the JSWL.

[100%cornish]

I wouldnt think Derek would be the Newquay manager hes a G man through and through but i would like him to offer his service to help the Peppermints out my family ties go right back to when my grandad was treasurer of Newquay when they where Newquay Rovers .Newquay need to get someone new in this week maybe to work with Tony Mckellar or maybe its time he went it must be soul destroying for th young Newquay players who are getting hammered each week u could see that on satday as soon as the 1st goal went in there heads dropped 

[SID]

13 hours ago, 100%cornish said:

Think it would take more than Derek to sort out the Newquay side Alec Ferguson isnt doing much maybe he would fancy a trip to the sea side lol ,Just hoping Newquay dont go out of the league but there will be a lot more heavy defeats at mt wise b4 the season is out start with the defence they just didnt have a clue against Saltash it would be good if Derek Martin took over at mt wise and had McKellar as his assitant but something needs to be done soon .Pity couldnt go back  to the old south western league local clubs dont need tobe going over the Tamar in the middle of the winter this league needs  a overall the teams that do win the league choose not to go up anyway so what is the point of it 

There is no way Derek would go to Newquay Imo, however, if he did Newquay would survive I'll guarantee you that, by far the best manager in Cornwall, look at what he did with no money. This is where the problem stems, I have been to a game every week of some description and the knowledge and information coming out of them dugouts is shocking, impressed with the Bodmin guys they seemed to know there stuff on the other hand I watched Blazey in midweek and they were 4-1 down and the manager was laughing and joking on the bench whilst Sims the full back was cheering himself after throwing a trick and megging a G player! THEY WERE 4-1 DOWN! I'm quite sure there is a lack of talent from the dugouts in the league at the minute, just my opinion of course! Happy for someone to prove me wrong.

[ECPL]

It is a shame that so many people see the game today through rose colored spectacles.  We all think in our day standards were much higher.  Personally I don't think so.  Yes there are some clubs that are struggling and yes the game has changed but saying that clubs are to big to be relegated is a bit naive to say the least.  Spoke to Nick Pope at Elburton Villa yesterday and he said that relegation was the best thing that happened to them.  It gave the club the opportunity to re assess the situation and their latest results show it.  After beating champions Mousehole 4-0 they now lie in second place.  

There was a time when the great Manchester United were relegated.  Didn't do them any harm they soon got back to the top flight and the rest as we know is history.  The one thing I will agree with is having to pay exorbitant expenses to match officials.  Sometimes clubs pay out more for these than they take in gate money.  Again of Liverpool can play Manchester United with a Manchester referee then why can't local referees control local matches.  The whole idea of a match official is that they are trained to be impartial so where they come from is irrelevant.  I would challenge the thought that these officials would show a bias to the team where they live, I would suggest the opposite, they are more likely to be ultra critical against their local team to make sure they do not have a bias.    Does it matter if they know players by their first name, I think not it shows they actually know players and can talk to them.  You only have to look at local league.  Take the Plymouth & District League, are we seriously saying that you cannot have a Plymouth referee contr9olling a Plymouth match.  Of course not, likewise with local Cornish leagues/  So why all the fuss    Always remember a god referee is one that is seen but not heard.  

  

[St John]

1 hour ago, ECPL said:

It is a shame that so many people see the game today through rose colored spectacles.  We all think in our day standards were much higher.  Personally I don't think so.  Yes there are some clubs that are struggling and yes the game has changed but saying that clubs are to big to be relegated is a bit naive to say the least.  Spoke to Nick Pope at Elburton Villa yesterday and he said that relegation was the best thing that happened to them.  It gave the club the opportunity to re assess the situation and their latest results show it.  After beating champions Mousehole 4-0 they now lie in second place.  

There was a time when the great Manchester United were relegated.  Didn't do them any harm they soon got back to the top flight and the rest as we know is history.  The one thing I will agree with is having to pay exorbitant expenses to match officials.  Sometimes clubs pay out more for these than they take in gate money.  Again of Liverpool can play Manchester United with a Manchester referee then why can't local referees control local matches.  The whole idea of a match official is that they are trained to be impartial so where they come from is irrelevant.  I would challenge the thought that these officials would show a bias to the team where they live, I would suggest the opposite, they are more likely to be ultra critical against their local team to make sure they do not have a bias.    Does it matter if they know players by their first name, I think not it shows they actually know players and can talk to them.  You only have to look at local league.  Take the Plymouth & District League, are we seriously saying that you cannot have a Plymouth referee contr9olling a Plymouth match.  Of course not, likewise with local Cornish leagues/  So why all the fuss    Always remember a god referee is one that is seen but not heard.  

  

So officials could be biased against teams where they live then, so as to not show favouritism? That's not on either.

[leedsunited]

6 hours ago, SID said:

There is no way Derek would go to Newquay Imo, however, if he did Newquay would survive I'll guarantee you that, by far the best manager in Cornwall, look at what he did with no money. This is where the problem stems, I have been to a game every week of some description and the knowledge and information coming out of them dugouts is shocking, impressed with the Bodmin guys they seemed to know there stuff on the other hand I watched Blazey in midweek and they were 4-1 down and the manager was laughing and joking on the bench whilst Sims the full back was cheering himself after throwing a trick and megging a G player! THEY WERE 4-1 DOWN! I'm quite sure there is a lack of talent from the dugouts in the league at the minute, just my opinion of course! Happy for someone to prove me wrong.

Thank you SID, we have some very experienced guys at Bodmin, sometimes like ALL people can go a little over the top, but surely better to 'care' & be near the top, than like the St.Blazey full back Sims you mentioned, who liked a showboat at 4-1 DOWN . Maybe that explains why Blazey are so poor this season. Could you visualise Trevor Mewton, Dave Ball, Graham Nichols smilling being 4-1 down?

[SID]

1 minute ago, leedsunited said:

Thank you SID, we have some very experienced guys at Bodmin, sometimes like ALL people can go a little over the top, but surely better to 'care' & be near the top, than like the St.Blazey full back Sims you mentioned, who liked a showboat at 4-1 DOWN . Maybe that explains why Blazey are so poor this season. Could you visualise Trevor Mewton, Dave Ball, Graham Nichols smilling being 4-1 down?

NOT AT ALL! Even worse can you imagine Derek Martin and the late Mick Lowry laughing? It just seems crazy that the managers roles seems to be a job for the boys, we all know what a proper passionate, educated manager brings to a team.

[Cornishfan74]

You can't blame Mackeller for Newquay's struggles, he's got an almost impossible job on his hands having to play against strong, experienced teams every week with a squad that has up until now have had the oldest player being 23! The manager has gifted many youngsters with Swpl Premier experience that will help them become stronger plays in the future. 

The real problem stems from a number of years ago with the Flybe sponsor. Newquay then paying big money for Plymouth based and other non local players as well as having 3 big name managers in one team, whilst ignoring any youth development. The knock on effect of this; money runs low means all the big names leave and go elsewhere for a pay packet, talented youngsters in the Newquay setup at the time headed elsewhere such as Godolphin as they were not good enough (not given the chance to represent their local town) and have now developed into very good players. Resulting in a struggle for players and having to use youngsters that are definitely not ready for this standard and a manager that is probably trying 110% each week but can only do so much with the funds given by the committee. I do hope Newquay stay up but there going to have to spend some money to engage names to come, a circle of spending money, players leaving, struggle, just like the last few seasons. For me Newquay were at there strongest as a whole club when Jim Hilton was in charge, players loved to play for him on a beer token budget which may have changed later on whilst bringing the better youngsters through, he was a huge loss for Newquay.

[jft96]

The Newquay team of a number of years ago did have a number of Plymouth/non local players in the squad, it also had a number of Newquay based players! Also the sponsorship from Flybe was not all spent on the players, there was no massive 'packets' being handed out. I know that because I was one of the players in the team that won promotion to the premier under hoops and laffs. I certainly wasn't on big money! I would hate to see Newquay relegated as my time at the club was brilliant. 

As for the team that is there now, I'm positive they go out and give 100%, a couple experienced players to go along with o'hagen might just help them. Hopefully they can turn it around.