TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 On 22/06/2024 at 06:35, St Darren said: It was subjective though so why didn’t he go to the monitor. the goal should have been given as the keeper was nowhere near it The referee is only invited to review a decision where the VAR, following a check, believes a clear and obvious error has been made. It is not used to confirm an on field decision, or take a second look. Had the on field decision been goal the referee would have been asked to view the monitor. Far from the worst decision, it's actually probably the most complex in real time and the team got it correct on field. In terms of process referee and ARs was excellent to arrive at the initial on field decision. Not sure why VAR took so long, unless they were checking something else in the build up as well? Should have been is he offside? Yes. Is he in the way of the GK movement towards the ball? Yes. Check Complete. 14 hours ago, bighairydave said: I do agree though, even though it was ruled offside on field, it still should have been one to check by on-field referee on the monitor to sell the decision. Issue is, once going to the monitor the expectations (set by themselves in fairness) will be that the decision is overturned. The protocol doesn't allow for it. The expectation would be set, not because the referees have set that, but because the referee should only view the monitor where a clear and obvious error, or serious missed incident has occurred and not as a confirmatory second look. A referee will never be sent to the monitor if the on field decision is not a clear and obvious error. I think that's the bit that most struggle with in all of VAR. Railwayman in Exile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 7 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said: The referee is only invited to review a decision where the VAR, following a check, believes a clear and obvious error has been made. It is not used to confirm an on field decision, or take a second look. Had the on field decision been goal the referee would have been asked to view the monitor. Far from the worst decision, it's actually probably the most complex in real time and the team got it correct on field. In terms of process referee and ARs was excellent to arrive at the initial on field decision. Not sure why VAR took so long, unless they were checking something else in the build up as well? Should have been is he offside? Yes. Is he in the way of the GK movement towards the ball? Yes. Check Complete. The protocol doesn't allow for it. The expectation would be set, not because the referees have set that, but because the referee should only view the monitor where a clear and obvious error, or serious missed incident has occurred and not as a confirmatory second look. A referee will never be sent to the monitor if the on field decision is not a clear and obvious error. I think that's the bit that most struggle with in all of VAR. Protocol or no protocol, I think a second look in this scenario would have sold the decision so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted June 23 Author Report Share Posted June 23 The reason why it took so long is because of the inability of Stuart Atwell. He’s awful on the pitch and even worse at VAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, St Darren said: The reason why it took so long is ..... the whole concept of VAR! Darren - VAR is awful! 1 hour ago, St Darren said: The reason why it took so long is because of the inability of Stuart Atwell. He’s awful on the pitch and even worse at VAR Your opinion of course, but likewise some reading this think otherwise. I have to say in general I think the refs have been pretty good so far. Not so sure about the on yesterday though in the Georgia v Czechia, a bit too keen with his yellow card! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted June 23 Report Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, bighairydave said: Protocol or no protocol, I think a second look in this scenario would have sold the decision so much better. That kind of defeats the point of having a VAR. It's had a 2nd look as another referee and assistant referee and a VAR supervisor have all had a 2nd look. I get your point though, optically to the world viewing the referee going to the monitor, might sell it, but in reality it would delay the game even further for very minimal gain. Otherwise do away with the VAR and just let the referee go to the monitor whenever he wants a second look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 17 Author Report Share Posted August 17 We go again with the ***** refereeing of not applying the laws. Can a qualified referee tell me the appropriate action when someone deliberately handballs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 5 hours ago, St Darren said: Can a qualified referee tell me the appropriate action when someone deliberately handballs? Direct free-kick, or a penalty if inside the penalty area presumably! Or was it a trick question Darren? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted August 17 Report Share Posted August 17 1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said: Direct free-kick, or a penalty if inside the penalty area presumably! Or was it a trick question Darren? 🤔 Correct! B Manning 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 18 Author Report Share Posted August 18 12 hours ago, bighairydave said: Correct! Should there be a yellow card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted August 18 Report Share Posted August 18 23 minutes ago, St Darren said: Should there be a yellow card? A yellow card if: *stops a promising attack *attempt to prevent a goal but unsuccessful Non-deliberate DOGSO in the penalty area is now also a yellow card as well. TheOpinionoftheReferee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted August 18 Report Share Posted August 18 4 hours ago, St Darren said: Should there be a yellow card? @bighairydave is spot on. It is a common myth (along with many others) that all deliberate handball offences are cautioned. It is not, handball offences are cautioned when they: Stop/interfere with a promising attack (2 caveats, if referee plays advantage, or, awards a penalty for a non-deliberate handball offence that stops a promising attack then no caution is issued) Attempts to score a goal (whether or not the attempt is successful) or unsuccessfully attempts to prevent a goal. And of course there is the new law amendment where a goal is denied or an obvious goal scoring opportunity is denied by a non-deliberate handball offence. (Non-deliberate handball offences are where a player makes their body unnaturally bigger and this is not a consequence of or justifiable for the players movement in that specific situation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 18 Author Report Share Posted August 18 So in the Ipswich v Liverpool game where the Ipswich player deliberately scoops the ball away, should he have been cautioned for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted August 18 Report Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, St Darren said: So in the Ipswich v Liverpool game where the Ipswich player deliberately scoops the ball away, should he have been cautioned for it? Haven’t seen it, but will take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted August 18 Report Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, St Darren said: So in the Ipswich v Liverpool game where the Ipswich player deliberately scoops the ball away, should he have been cautioned for it? Good discretion shown by the ref Darren 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 18 Author Report Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said: Good discretion shown by the ref Darren 👍 Should be applying laws surely? is this not the major frustration with the referees? The inconsistency of applying the laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrummyBarry Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 10 hours ago, St Darren said: Should be applying laws surely? is this not the major frustration with the referees? The inconsistency of applying the laws Your whats wrong with the footballing community at the moment someone that has never blown a whistle in their life but thinks they understand the job and the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 11 hours ago, St Darren said: Should be applying laws surely? is this not the major frustration with the referees? The inconsistency of applying the laws It is literally in the laws: Decisions will be made to the best of the referee’s ability according to the Laws of the Game and the ‘spirit of the game’ and will be based on the opinion of the referee, who has the discretion to take appropriate action within the framework of the Laws of the Game. Why don't you tell us why you think I should have been a yellow. Seems all clips have been disabled and haven't seen it. Most of the comments refer to it being deliberate, which as has already been explained does not make it a caution offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 Have now seen this and I don't think that can be described as a promising attack. Secondary defender about to immediately engage and several defenders back for Ipswich. It may have turned into a promising attack, but hard pressed to say it is one at the point of the handball offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 2 hours ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said: Why don't you tell us why you think I should have been a yellow. Probably because he's a Liverpool supporter! 😀 2 hours ago, BrummyBarry said: Your whats wrong with the footballing community at the moment someone that has never blown a whistle in their life but thinks they understand the job and the rules. Isn't it "laws"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 37 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said: Isn't it "laws"? The English dictionary definition of law includes reference to rules. In my opinion it doesn't matter whether you say laws or rules, albeit I know many of my colleagues take a different view on this. Dave Deacon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 19 Author Report Share Posted August 19 4 hours ago, BrummyBarry said: Your whats wrong with the footballing community at the moment someone that has never blown a whistle in their life but thinks they understand the job and the rules. You’re not your. I can inform you that I have! I was under the impression that if a player deliberately handballs it as the Ipswich player did then it is a bookable offence. If that’s not the case then fair enough. I will continue to criticise referees who don’t do their jobs correctly despite being handsomely paid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 26 Author Report Share Posted August 26 Looking forward to seeing more clothes line techniques this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted August 26 Report Share Posted August 26 6 hours ago, St Darren said: Looking forward to seeing more clothes line techniques this season! Being blown out of proportion in my opinion. It's an arm over the shoulder across the chest and a pull back. Doesnt look great but as far as I am concerned yellow card was the correct outcome. But it is subjective and of course other opinions may be different, even amongst referees... Shock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 26 Author Report Share Posted August 26 1 hour ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said: Being blown out of proportion in my opinion. It's an arm over the shoulder across the chest and a pull back. Doesnt look great but as far as I am concerned yellow card was the correct outcome. But it is subjective and of course other opinions may be different, even amongst referees... Shock! Across the chest? How high is the chest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted August 26 Report Share Posted August 26 18 minutes ago, St Darren said: Across the chest? How high is the chest? Look at it again ... Right arm over the shoulder, down and across chest. The players hand is literally on the keepers pectoral muscle which last time I checked was the chest area... It's also a pull back rather than a forward motion you would see in a "clothes line". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 26 Author Report Share Posted August 26 And where does his arm start, his arm is bending around his neck! I appreciate there is interpretation but I think it’s more neck than chest! What about the goal that was disallowed? Was that arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted August 26 Report Share Posted August 26 2 hours ago, St Darren said: What about the goal that was disallowed? Was that arm? Inconclusive. Would imagine the VAR has a different view on 1 of the many screens he has that the broadcasters didn't show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted August 26 Author Report Share Posted August 26 Dale Johnson on Twitter criticised both decisions!! opinions I aupppse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted August 26 Report Share Posted August 26 29 minutes ago, St Darren said: Dale Johnson on Twitter criticised both decisions!! opinions I aupppse Yes. The Joelinton one has split the opinion of many referees and probably spectators alike. You just can't make a judgment on the available info on the handball in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrummyBarry Posted August 26 Report Share Posted August 26 1 hour ago, St Darren said: Dale Johnson on Twitter criticised both decisions!! opinions I aupppse You need to understand not only the rules but the fact that individuals se things differently.at all levels we see opinions split between teams, between refs.yiu just needed to be at Helston to see that in motion today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmooreshead Posted August 31 Report Share Posted August 31 Another crackin performance from the clown at the Emirates today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted September 1 Report Share Posted September 1 On 31/08/2024 at 14:42, Brianmooreshead said: Another crackin performance from the clown at the Emirates today Yellow card for Rice spot on! 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 1 Author Report Share Posted September 1 10 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said: Yellow card for Rice spot on! 👍 Correct. It’s soft but it’s a yellow. But we lack the consistency because the Brighton player wasn’t booked earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmooreshead Posted September 1 Report Share Posted September 1 2 hours ago, St Darren said: Correct. It’s soft but it’s a yellow. But we lack the consistency because the Brighton player wasn’t booked earlier. Exactly - He stitched rice up like a Kipper but he should have had a yellow for kicking Rices shins. Though the ref was poor all game - And I'm not even a Gooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrummyBarry Posted September 1 Report Share Posted September 1 He should have had a yellow for kicking the shins of a player? if rice didnt kicked the ball away, he would have made a perfectly good contact with the ball. Thats really bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmooreshead Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 The ball was moving so any free kick would have had to have been re-taken. Rice toe poked the ball away, about a distance of fifteen inches. Matey then saw his chance by pretending to want to lash a free kick sixty yards crossfield, and in the same instance take the opportunity to whack Rice across the shins. He got away with it - Rice didn't, but if you can't see what was happening there then you're a tad naive Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Darren Posted September 2 Author Report Share Posted September 2 13 hours ago, Brianmooreshead said: The ball was moving so any free kick would have had to have been re-taken. Rice toe poked the ball away, about a distance of fifteen inches. Matey then saw his chance by pretending to want to lash a free kick sixty yards crossfield, and in the same instance take the opportunity to whack Rice across the shins. He got away with it - Rice didn't, but if you can't see what was happening there then you're a tad naive Barry Rice stopped the free kick from being taken quickly! it’s soft but it’s a yellow card by law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenman Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 How about another thought on this subject .? Most Premiership players earn more in a week than the Prime Minister or brain surgeon earn in a year . These grossly overpaid players complain about match officials , but do they ever look at themselves ? aside from making mistakes do they ever feel guilty about wrestling and shirt pulling at corners , free kicks etc. Some of it is so blatant that Stevie Wonder would see it . Many people defend this as " passion for the game " and taking one for the team . In old money this was regarded as cheating but in the modern game in the fans and pundits eyes its perfectly acceptable .Is there any other sport ( ignoring drug enhancement ) where wholesale cheating is acceptable in the eyes of players , club management and supporters . One question , totally unrelated to football which is baffling both myself and some journalists particularly motorsport ones . Why do the commentators and pundits in motorsport no longer use first , second , third etc . or qualifying one, two etc . but refer to P1, P2 ,Q1 , Q 2 and football pundits refer to a pen . My childish mind often thinks that Kane , Sterling and Grealish have won more pens than W.H.Smith . Dave Deacon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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