Penzance to benefit the more from dual signing arrangement with Helston?

[Dave Deacon]

I got wind of this yesterday and now see that Tom Harris of the Packet Newspaper has put it out there for all to read about Helston and Penzance agreeing a "player partnership".

Basically players within the two clubs will be dual signing.

As I see it, although the arrangement will be for players to go both ways, I would imagine there will be more going from Helston to Penzance rather than the other way round.

[Mitchy]

Read the article and cant help but feel sorry for the other teams at Helston, especially the Reserve/Development side hence why they changed from Reserves to Development. Never can understand the philosophy of why this happens and also why the Development side is not used or run correctly, surely if you would like the Development side to follow suit then why not help and support them.

[sportsman10]

There won’t be many Plymouth based players turning out for Penzance i bet. 

[Ian Pethick]

Will be looking on to see how this works out. Can see one or two potential snags, and not sure how I feel about a club of the standing and history of Penzance being downgraded to effectively existing as Helston Reserves.

[Dave Deacon]

6 minutes ago, Way Of The Park said:

Will be looking on to see how this works out. Can see one or two potential snags, and not sure how I feel about a club of the standing and history of Penzance being downgraded to effectively existing as Helston Reserves.

I wonder who will have the final say when it comes to making player decisions on the day of a match?

[John Mead]

2 minutes ago, Way Of The Park said:

Will be looking on to see how this works out. Can see one or two potential snags, and not sure how I feel about a club of the standing and history of Penzance being downgraded to effectively existing as Helston Reserves.

I think you're reading more into this than what has been agreed. Both Clubs are fully in control of their own team selection.

[Dave Deacon]

Just now, John Mead said:

I think you're reading more into this than what has been agreed. Both Clubs are fully in control of their own team selection.

So if say Penzance don’t need any surplus, although Helston might be keen for a couple of their players to have a run out - Penzance will say no, don’t need anyone

[John Mead]

23 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

So if say Penzance don’t need any surplus, although Helston might be keen for a couple of their players to have a run out - Penzance will say no, don’t need anyone

Exactly!  The arrangement is designed to allow fluidity and help both Clubs to give game time at the most suitable level, particularly to "fringe players" or those coming back from injury. With 5 subs being able to play in games next season, I think a different strategy of how they are used will emerge. I don't believe a possible 10 players per team will be too happy with regularly not having a full 90 minutes. Will Penzance have players able to step up to Western League? - I don't know at present; we'll have to wait and see! 

[cornish leg end]

Helston have like 20 teams can’t see any of them going and playing for Penzance when they have there own sides they can get a game with if needed. That’s the whole idea of reserve sides and so on. 

[sportsman10]

How will the lads of Penzance feel when 2-3 helston lads rock up for a bit of fitness training . Honestly mad idea. Better of using the reserves etc 

[Dave Deacon]

12 minutes ago, cornish leg end said:

Helston have like 20 teams can’t see any of them going and playing for Penzance when they have there own sides they can get a game with if needed. That’s the whole idea of reserve sides and so on. 

But the suggestion is that Helston would rather have their players playing at SWPL level rather than SPL

[FootballChat]

42 minutes ago, John Mead said:

Will Penzance have players able to step up to Western League? 

Penzance struggled for players able to play Peninsula football last season 😂

[Ian Pethick]

57 minutes ago, John Mead said:

Exactly!  The arrangement is designed to allow fluidity and help both Clubs to give game time at the most suitable level, particularly to "fringe players" or those coming back from injury. With 5 subs being able to play in games next season, I think a different strategy of how they are used will emerge. I don't believe a possible 10 players per team will be too happy with regularly not having a full 90 minutes. Will Penzance have players able to step up to Western League? - I don't know at present; we'll have to wait and see! 

Wish Penzance all the best with this arrangement.  A club I've always had a soft spot for, that was why I voiced my concerns.

[cornish leg end]

55 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

But the suggestion is that Helston would rather have their players playing at SWPL level rather than SPL

But they just aswell play for there reserves that are near the top rather than fight relagation with Penzance again. No different in levels. 

[Dave Deacon]

22 minutes ago, cornish leg end said:

No different in levels. 

Not so sure about that!

[John Mead]

52 minutes ago, FootballChat said:

Penzance struggled for players able to play Peninsula football last season 😂

Indeed, that was the case. However, the Club is taking positive steps to avoid that situation being repeated - regardless of the link with Helston. Is that wrong? Are they not entitled to explore all avenues in order to improve their situation?

[Dave Deacon]

16 minutes ago, John Mead said:

Indeed, that was the case. However, the Club is taking positive steps to avoid that situation being repeated - regardless of the link with Helston. Is that wrong? Are they not entitled to explore all avenues in order to improve their situation?

Of course John not wrong as no laws being broken. I guess if anything it’s just making the use of “ringers” more official 😀!

[Local Footie fan]

1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

But the suggestion is that Helston would rather have their players playing at SWPL level rather than SPL

If that’s the case then surely it’s better for Helston to try and get their reserves promoted into the SWPL? 

Maybe Helston are thinking their own team in SWPL would increase club costs because of extra travelling expenses etc, as I assume the director of football might only be funding the first team only? 

Wasnt there talk of Mousehole having a merger with Penzance a few years ago? Obviously that didn’t happen. 

 

8 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Of course John not wrong as no laws being broken. I guess if anything it’s just making the use of “ringers” more official 😀!

Can you remember Mark Loram! 

[Dave Deacon]

15 minutes ago, Mark Jones said:

If that’s the case then surely it’s better for Helston to try and get their reserves promoted into the SWPL? 

I think there has to be a minimum of two Steps between a first and reserve team and so Helston can’t have reserve side in Swpl until they get promoted

17 minutes ago, Mark Jones said:

Can you remember Mark Loram! 

Yeah

[Local Footie fan]

Just now, Dave Deacon said:

I think there has to be a minimum of two Steps between a first and reserve team and so Helston can’t have reserve side in Swpl until they get promoted

Oh good point! Thanks Dave. 

[THEMAGPIE]

Embarrassing from Penzance, I said from the start this was a negative managerial appointment, basically they can’t attract any players of they’re own at this level so will be using Helston’s hand me downs!! 
I do wonder what is going on at Penzance behind the scenes, reserve team manager walking out and basically all the best reserve players downing tools to Pendeen?? Then this…….

[cornish leg end]

Seems to me it’s a way for Penzance to fulfill fixtures each week unlike this season! Stupid rules duel signing! Sign for a club and that’s how it should be 

[John Mead]

43 minutes ago, THEMAGPIE said:

Embarrassing from Penzance, I said from the start this was a negative managerial appointment, basically they can’t attract any players of they’re own at this level so will be using Helston’s hand me downs!! 
I do wonder what is going on at Penzance behind the scenes, reserve team manager walking out and basically all the best reserve players downing tools to Pendeen?? Then this…….

Sorry that you feel embarrassed but I don't understand why. Too many are happy to criticise without having any factual knowledge of "what is going on behind the scenes". 

[THEMAGPIE]

Just now, John Mead said:

Sorry that you feel embarrassed but I don't understand why. Too many are happy to criticise without having any factual knowledge of "what is going on behind the scenes". 

Club is again a laughing stock (which is frustrating)! Reserve manager walks after a very good tenure and most of the  good players depart?? and these are first hand facts John.

4 minutes ago, cornish leg end said:

Seems to me it’s a way for Penzance to fulfill fixtures each week unlike this season! Stupid rules duel signing! Sign for a club and that’s how it should be 

The days of players signing for one club are long gone (with one or two exceptions) never will one club signing ever come back 

[cornish leg end]

12 minutes ago, THEMAGPIE said:

Club is again a laughing stock (which is frustrating)! Reserve manager walks after a very good tenure and most of the  good players depart?? and these are first hand facts John.

The days of players signing for one club are long gone (with one or two exceptions) never will one club signing ever come back 

This rule has been the biggest down fall to Cornish football. Higher players come in push out the regulars then they don’t want to play again. Same will happen at Penzance this season. Such a shame. 

[sportsman10]

You can understand why any Penzance fans is disappointed with this. 
It’s a ridiculous idea  . 
they pay to watch  their  team  with Penzance players not a  helston feeder team.  So you go 1 week and  3 or 4 helston lads are starting. Penzance win comfortably the following week none available and the lads who were benched or dropped to make way for  them are not interested what happens then ?? 

[Charlie Farley]

Mark Loram wasn't a ringer. He played regularly for us.

[John Mead]

1 hour ago, sportsman10 said:

You can understand why any Penzance fans is disappointed with this. 
It’s a ridiculous . 
they pay to watch  their  team  with Penzance players not a  helston feeder team.  So you go 1 week and  3 or 4 helston lads are starting. Penzance win comfortably the following week none available and the lads who were benched or dropped to make way for  them are not interested what happens then ?? 

I can understand your views but that's not  how we see it working; it's more like a player, or players, being "on loan" for a period, as in the professional game. However, nothing is set in stone and the situation will be regularly reviewed. The arrangement at least gives the club confidence that it will be able to field a team each week, preventing both the frustration and embarrassment of last season.

"Here endeth the lesson."

[THEMAGPIE]

4 hours ago, John Mead said:

I can understand your views but that's not  how we see it working; it's more like a player, or players, being "on loan" for a period, as in the professional game. However, nothing is set in stone and the situation will be regularly reviewed. The arrangement at least gives the club confidence that it will be able to field a team each week, preventing both the frustration and embarrassment of last season.

"Here endeth the lesson."

So the Club obviously doesn’t have confidence that the new manager’s can field a team each week as I said before?

The lesson is maybe Penzance need to drop to a standard where they can field a team each week without asking Helston for players? 
A new level of embarrassment for the Club.

[sportsman10]

5 hours ago, John Mead said:

I can understand your views but that's not  how we see it working; it's more like a player, or players, being "on loan" for a period, as in the professional game. However, nothing is set in stone and the situation will be regularly reviewed. The arrangement at least gives the club confidence that it will be able to field a team each week, preventing both the frustration and embarrassment of last season.

"Here endeth the lesson."

When you say “like player or players being on loan”. Surly a player is  on loan for months or the full season not just the odd game as is being suggested it’s just going to to cause more issues when the player goes back to helston and Penzance haven’t got someone to replace him   .
Also are these helston players  going to be payed by Penzance the same amount  they would earn at helston playing   ?? or are helston going to pick up  the tab   ??  I can’t see Tyler Elliott of helston  driving to Penzance to play for fun and nothing 

Just all seems very odd. Would have thought Penzance was a big enough club in its own right  

[THEMAGPIE]

10 minutes ago, sportsman10 said:

When you say “like player or players being on loan”. Surly a player is  on loan for months or the full season not just the odd game as is being suggested it’s just going to to cause more issues when the player goes back to helston and Penzance haven’t got someone to replace him   .
Also are these helston players  going to be payed by Penzance the same amount  they would earn at helston playing   ?? or are helston going to pick up  the tab   ??  I can’t see Tyler Elliott of helston  driving to Penzance to play for fun and nothing 

Just all seems very odd. Would have thought Penzance was a big enough club in its own right  

And why make a managerial appointment that can’t raise a team consistently? As I said before I thought it was a negative appointment and that they would struggle to raise a team at that level? The second team lads and manager have downed tools and gone elsewhere so that’s looking very unlikely to continue next season as well, the Club is in a constant cycle of bad decisions, Steve Massey must be laughing at Penzance agreeing to this!

when you have a thriving youth section, an abundance of youth players within the Club and you have to rely on an agreement like this something is seriously wrong internally.

[S Abbo]

Yep don't agree with this...  

1) Just separates the Helston teams even more! 

2) Pz should be a club capable of relying on their own players... such a big area with lots of teams..  never understood why a local manager can't get the best of the best in the area to PZ as it's and awesome club ... Mousehole option a few years ago would of been better than this looking from the outside..  (don't know ins and outs)

[sportsman10]

1 minute ago, THEMAGPIE said:

And why make a managerial appointment that can’t raise a team consistently? As I said before I thought it was a negative appointment and that they would struggle to raise a team at that level? The second team lads and manager have downed tools and gone elsewhere so that’s looking very unlikely to continue next season as well, the Club is in a constant cycle of bad decisions, Steve Massey must be laughing at Penzance agreeing to this!

when you have a thriving youth section, an abundance of youth players within the Club and you have to rely on an agreement like this something is seriously wrong internally.

It seems so be a worrying trend at this level at the minute of getting in a manager and this manger has no players or contacts. Penryn have just seen this to their cost. 
very strange if the 2nd team have departed as well maybe they got wind of this arrangement and rightly thought we’re is the route into the team for my players if helston are dictating who can play. 
 

definitely doesn’t sound all great there 

[cornish leg end]

Penzance just aswell ask st just this season for some loan player sure Rodney will be happy to draw up a contract. 😂

this is a silly decision and will not last Long. Can’t see how regular players are going to be kept happy with players from helston coming over for a game and playing ahead of them. The agreement isn’t for helston players to come over and sit on the bench for a game is it.  Expect it to be another long season for the club. Should have kept Kevin in charge people wanted to play for him. 
 

[THEMAGPIE]

51 minutes ago, cornish leg end said:

Penzance just aswell ask st just this season for some loan player sure Rodney will be happy to draw up a contract. 😂

this is a silly decision and will not last Long. Can’t see how regular players are going to be kept happy with players from helston coming over for a game and playing ahead of them. The agreement isn’t for helston players to come over and sit on the bench for a game is it.  Expect it to be another long season for the club. Should have kept Kevin in charge people wanted to play for him. 
 

Don’t think they’ve descended to those measures just yet! 

[le boss]

15 hours ago, John Mead said:

I think you're reading more into this than what has been agreed. Both Clubs are fully in control of their own team selection.

But that would be boring John. Imagine this forum using the facts instead of supposition 🤔🤔🤔

[Uwdi Krugg]

Player Partnerships 😆 

That's a polite fancy term for it 🤦‍♂️

Quite a few references to 'Ringers' in this thread. My experience of Dual Registration is that it usually dredges up stiffs needing a bit of exercise from the outer reaches of the squad rather than anything resembling quality players.

It gives the recipient club a few bodies to chuck in the line up when the usual players are at a wedding or a shopping trip with the girlfriend 🤪

It's disrespectful to the integrity of the league and unfair to the opposition team who've put the hard yards in building a loyal squad and genuine positive club culture.

What should be a game against a recognised Penzance squad suddenly expands to include Western League players who've waltzed in an hour before kick off.

It's tacky, unfair, disrespectful and yet another symptom of embarrassing Modern Football.

[cornishteddyboy]

Our Reserve team manager, his wife and his assistant are heavily involved with Penzance youth being managers, chairman, secretary, trainers, groundsmen. They have stepped down from managing the Reserves after seven seasons to concentrate on expanding our youth section. They have not jumped ship 

Also three reserve players have transferred to Pendeen Reserves, a new side just starting up. Not the great exoduse as has been claimed. To lose three players to another side, a couple more to college is what happens to every club at the level of the Trelawny.

But speculate away, that is what a forum is for, but I think it is funny that there are probably half a dozen clubs in the county that get picked and kicked to pieces on here whilst there are clubs that do the same, such as not being able to fulfil a fixture that there is hardly a mummer about. Butter wouldn't melt between their goal posts, but others like, Bodmin, Penzance, Helston, Saltash, have become the whipping boys of the keyboard warriors. Love to moan but will do nothing to help the clubs they supposedly support.

 

[cornish leg end]

24 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

Our Reserve team manager, his wife and his assistant are heavily involved with Penzance youth being managers, chairman, secretary, trainers, groundsmen. They have stepped down from managing the Reserves after seven seasons to concentrate on expanding our youth section. They have not jumped ship 

Also three reserve players have transferred to Pendeen Reserves, a new side just starting up. Not the great exoduse as has been claimed. To lose three players to another side, a couple more to college is what happens to every club at the level of the Trelawny.

But speculate away, that is what a forum is for, but I think it is funny that there are probably half a dozen clubs in the county that get picked and kicked to pieces on here whilst there are clubs that do the same, such as not being able to fulfil a fixture that there is hardly a mummer about. Butter wouldn't melt between their goal posts, but others like, Bodmin, Penzance, Helston, Saltash, have become the whipping boys of the keyboard warriors. Love to moan but will do nothing to help the clubs they supposedly support.

 

Penzance no longer a big club. It’s abit like Man U. Players don’t want to stay or come anymore 😂

[FootballChat]

34 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

Our Reserve team manager, his wife and his assistant are heavily involved with Penzance youth being managers, chairman, secretary, trainers, groundsmen. They have stepped down from managing the Reserves after seven seasons to concentrate on expanding our youth section. They have not jumped ship 

Also three reserve players have transferred to Pendeen Reserves, a new side just starting up. Not the great exoduse as has been claimed. To lose three players to another side, a couple more to college is what happens to every club at the level of the Trelawny.

But speculate away, that is what a forum is for, but I think it is funny that there are probably half a dozen clubs in the county that get picked and kicked to pieces on here whilst there are clubs that do the same, such as not being able to fulfil a fixture that there is hardly a mummer about. Butter wouldn't melt between their goal posts, but others like, Bodmin, Penzance, Helston, Saltash, have become the whipping boys of the keyboard warriors. Love to moan but will do nothing to help the clubs they supposedly support.

 

How do you know who has stayed or left? How many have you signed on ready for the new season?

My guess is zero as no club can register players yet.

[darren dayus]

39 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

Our Reserve team manager, his wife and his assistant are heavily involved with Penzance youth being managers, chairman, secretary, trainers, groundsmen. They have stepped down from managing the Reserves after seven seasons to concentrate on expanding our youth section. They have not jumped ship 

Also three reserve players have transferred to Pendeen Reserves, a new side just starting up. Not the great exoduse as has been claimed. To lose three players to another side, a couple more to college is what happens to every club at the level of the Trelawny.

But speculate away, that is what a forum is for, but I think it is funny that there are probably half a dozen clubs in the county that get picked and kicked to pieces on here whilst there are clubs that do the same, such as not being able to fulfil a fixture that there is hardly a mummer about. Butter wouldn't melt between their goal posts, but others like, Bodmin, Penzance, Helston, Saltash, have become the whipping boys of the keyboard warriors. Love to moan but will do nothing to help the clubs they supposedly support.

 

Is that right Paul not sure the reasons for us leaving were shared with yourself as I/we have been very great full for your continued support over the years , please don’t speak for me/us especially when you don’t have the relevant info . Thanks Darren 

[cornish leg end]

1 hour ago, darren dayus said:

Is that right Paul not sure the reasons for us leaving were shared with yourself as I/we have been very great full for your continued support over the years , please don’t speak for me/us especially when you don’t have the relevant info . Thanks Darren 

Please share with us then the true facts 😃

[THEMAGPIE]

Everyone who knows Darren and his family would be well aware that he didn’t just ‘walk out’, obviously far more to it than that, done a fantastic job with the reserves and the youngsters hold him in high regard, better fit they give him a shot at the 1st team with all his connections to the youth he can’t have done any worse.

[le boss]

6 hours ago, THEMAGPIE said:

Everyone who knows Darren and his family would be well aware that he didn’t just ‘walk out’, obviously far more to it than that, done a fantastic job with the reserves and the youngsters hold him in high regard, better fit they give him a shot at the 1st team with all his connections to the youth he can’t have done any worse.

Better fit?????

[quiksilver]

Who cares, SWPL is now a pub league anyway 

[Town Fan]

14 hours ago, quiksilver said:

Who cares, SWPL is now a pub league anyway 

I think Liskeard, Wadebridge, Wendron, St Austell and St Blazey might take issue with you on that, maybe one or two others as well.

[6times]

15 hours ago, quiksilver said:

Who cares, SWPL is now a pub league anyway 

Dunno about pub but it ain’t great that’s for sure, 

[cornish leg end]

Got to agree with him. The league is the weakest it’s ever been. On paper there only one winner. St blazey. Talking to a player last night the big money they are paying for river is just the start. 
mots no longer a strong competitive league through out. Same teams will be at the bottom with big hammerings. Cornish football was fucked when they started to mess around with the leagues for top to bottom. It’s done us no good. I believe we will never see it as it was 10 year ago now. 

[Ian Pethick]

On 25/06/2022 at 10:26, cornishteddyboy said:

Our Reserve team manager, his wife and his assistant are heavily involved with Penzance youth being managers, chairman, secretary, trainers, groundsmen. They have stepped down from managing the Reserves after seven seasons to concentrate on expanding our youth section. They have not jumped ship 

Also three reserve players have transferred to Pendeen Reserves, a new side just starting up. Not the great exoduse as has been claimed. To lose three players to another side, a couple more to college is what happens to every club at the level of the Trelawny.

But speculate away, that is what a forum is for, but I think it is funny that there are probably half a dozen clubs in the county that get picked and kicked to pieces on here whilst there are clubs that do the same, such as not being able to fulfil a fixture that there is hardly a mummer about. Butter wouldn't melt between their goal posts, but others like, Bodmin, Penzance, Helston, Saltash, have become the whipping boys of the keyboard warriors. Love to moan but will do nothing to help the clubs they supposedly support.

 

Often thought some clubs are very much "love to hate" on here.

Not Peninsula League I know, but contrast what is said about Helston and Mousehole (especially Jake Ash and Steve Massey).

[Martin Eddy]

7 minutes ago, Way Of The Park said:

Often thought some clubs are very much "love to hate" on here.

Not Peninsula League I know, but contrast what is said about Helston and Mousehole (especially Jake Ash and Steve Massey).

Can you not remember when Mousehole first started their new adventure. They were slagged from puller to post on here.