Launceston 1 v 2 Liskeard

[Scout 8]

Good game tonight, Launceston GK and Manager sent off. 
 

Liskeard scored the winner in the 90 minute  (Penalty) 

Launceston worked hard, lots of desire and effort. Defending very deep.

Liskeard playing decent football and playing through the thirds.

If they were more clinical in front of goal would’ve won this match by at least 6 goals. 
 

But fair play to the home team, lots of positives moving forward. 

[rocky170267]

On this performance against 10 men for 60 minutes liskeard will not be winning this league !

I went as a neutral and can honestly say I’ve seen one of the very worst refereeing performances I’ve ever seen..

Launceston keeper sent off for kicking outside his box (Twice)

If it was handling the ball outside his box then fair enough (which he didn’t clearly as confirmed by the Lino)but he actually stated that the goalkeeper kicked the ball outside his box which is totally legal ? Honestly cannot believe what I’ve seen this evening.

The manager being sent off was also the wrong decision although a yellow card would probably be deserved.

Well done to Liskeard for sticking at it although I’m sure they would admit they have had an awful game in front of goal throughout the game.
 

And also commiserations to Launceston for putting in such a brave effort in spite of the awful display by the referee who ruined the game.

 

 

 

[middle mans mate]

51 minutes ago, rocky170267 said:

On this performance against 10 men for 60 minutes liskeard will not be winning this league !

I went as a neutral and can honestly say I’ve seen one of the very worst refereeing performances I’ve ever seen..

Launceston keeper sent off for kicking outside his box (Twice)

If it was handling the ball outside his box then fair enough (which he didn’t clearly as confirmed by the Lino)but he actually stated that the goalkeeper kicked the ball outside his box which is totally legal ? Honestly cannot believe what I’ve seen this evening.

The manager being sent off was also the wrong decision although a yellow card would probably be deserved.

Well done to Liskeard for sticking at it although I’m sure they would admit they have had an awful game in front of goal throughout the game.
 

And also commiserations to Launceston for putting in such a brave effort in spite of the awful display by the referee who ruined the game.

 

 

 

Dudman, another ref who thinks its all about him....

[SSB1]

11 hours ago, Scout 8 said:

Good game tonight, Launceston GK and Manager sent off. 
 

Liskeard scored the winner in the 90 minute  (Penalty) 

Launceston worked hard, lots of desire and effort. Defending very deep.

Liskeard playing decent football and playing through the thirds.

If they were more clinical in front of goal would’ve won this match by at least 6 goals. 
 

But fair play to the home team, lots of positives moving forward. 

Very bizarre game to watch indeed.

would disagree with your points on Liskeard playing through the thirds. For me, this was the reason it was a 90th minute penalty which won them the game instead of their quality. They very rarely played through the thirds at all. Their play followed a similar pattern which was knock it across the back slowly, then give it to the number 7 who pretty much plays as a sweeper who things pings a long ball over the fullback’s and every now and again they get some joy from it. When you do that against ten men who sat everyone deep and behind the ball, you will never get any joy from it. Had they played through the thirds and were more patient then they would have been able to pull Launceston from the deep position and played through them with intricate passing. Gameplan was wrong and that was why it took as long as it did to seal the win.

 

Heard the ref was being assessed last night, what i would give to see his remarks on the double yellow for the keeper. First one, he was outside the box, the 2nd he was comfortably inside the box and the linesman, who was bang in line, said to me after the game that he wasnt outside the box, so it shouldnt have been a 2nd yellow. So a clear error, but no doubt the assessor will ensure the ref gets top marks as they always seem to back the ref regardless of how ludicrous or poor their decisions had been.

 

Entertaining for the neutral though. 

[justanopinion]

There is a new marking system in place this season. I hope BOTH clubs submit a suitable report because the questionnaire gives every opportunity.

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

45 minutes ago, rocky170267 said:

On this performance against 10 men for 60 minutes liskeard will not be winning this league !

I went as a neutral and can honestly say I’ve seen one of the very worst refereeing performances I’ve ever seen..

Launceston keeper sent off for kicking outside his box (Twice)

If it was handling the ball outside his box then fair enough (which he didn’t clearly as confirmed by the Lino)but he actually stated that the goalkeeper kicked the ball outside his box which is totally legal ? Honestly cannot believe what I’ve seen this evening.

The manager being sent off was also the wrong decision although a yellow card would probably be deserved.

Well done to Liskeard for sticking at it although I’m sure they would admit they have had an awful game in front of goal throughout the game.
 

And also commiserations to Launceston for putting in such a brave effort in spite of the awful display by the referee who ruined the game.

 

 

 

FYI - GK handling the ball outside of the box is not a red card in itself. 

A red card should only be shown for a handball that denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity. 

And a yellow card should be shown for handball in a failed attempt to stop a goal, stopping/interfering with a promising attack, or attempting to score a goal with a deliberate handball. 

Other reasons to caution for handball are where the handball offence is unsporting behaviour or persistent offending

Any other handball offence there is no requirement for a sanction.

Without hearing from the referees themselves it's hard to comment, but if as you describe the GK was cautioned for kicking the ball outside of the area, without any handling outside or the area, then that wouldn't be supported in law. If it was handball then it doesn't sound like a caution was needed at least for the first offence

[Dave Deacon]

4 hours ago, rocky170267 said:

Launceston keeper sent off for kicking outside his box (Twice)

Really! Kicking outside?

[SSB1]

The first caution was for the keeper handling the ball outside the box as he let it go to kick it. The second was for exactly the same thing, although as i mentioned, the keeper, for the second yellow actually released the ball a good yard or two inside the box and upon kicking the ball his momentum took him just outside. But to stress, he let go of the all to kick it well within the box. For me the ref got it massively wrong and the lino even agreed however i doubt the assessor will have marked down on this and will undoubtedly state the ref was spot on because that's all they ever do. I would love to see an assessor call a ref out and highlighting an error. This isn't a ref bash, this is years of frustration seeing players, managers and supporters seeing refs gain reputations for being so bad and making it all about them and ruining games, but no matter how many times they get assessed, they are never held to account for their mistakes. The untouchables.

 

Having said that, the penalty in injury time could be seen as controversial and given the way the game went (laughable red card for Launceston) many refs wouldn't have given the penalty, but he did and it was the right decision, so well done for that.

I see the liskeard manager has stepped down this morning. Darren Gilbert was seen lurking behind the dugouts Tuesday night, may he be lined up.

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

23 minutes ago, SSB1 said:

The first caution was for the keeper handling the ball outside the box as he let it go to kick it. The second was for exactly the same thing, although as i mentioned, the keeper, for the second yellow actually released the ball a good yard or two inside the box and upon kicking the ball his momentum took him just outside. But to stress, he let go of the all to kick it well within the box. For me the ref got it massively wrong and the lino even agreed however i doubt the assessor will have marked down on this and will undoubtedly state the ref was spot on because that's all they ever do. I would love to see an assessor call a ref out and highlighting an error. This isn't a ref bash, this is years of frustration seeing players, managers and supporters seeing refs gain reputations for being so bad and making it all about them and ruining games, but no matter how many times they get assessed, they are never held to account for their mistakes. The untouchables.

 

Having said that, the penalty in injury time could be seen as controversial and given the way the game went (laughable red card for Launceston) many refs wouldn't have given the penalty, but he did and it was the right decision, so well done for that.

I see the liskeard manager has stepped down this morning. Darren Gilbert was seen lurking behind the dugouts Tuesday night, may he be lined up.

As you describe even the first caution isn't supported as per my earlier post. 

Last point from me, referees are absolutely held to account by observers. At this level they are in a league table against colleagues for both observer marking and club marking with clear demotion criteria based on merit table positions which club marks make up 50%. 

Clubs have a clear process for raising poor performance issues with referees, made even easier this year with a new marking form. Repeated low scores would gain the attention of the referee development officer and the FA. 

[John Davies]

I’m sure that a goalkeeper is deemed to be in possession of the ball for the whole duration of the kick. This law was essentially brought in to prevent the occasions where the opposition would ‘tackle’ the goalkeeper mid-kick.

This therefore means the goalkeeper is technically in control of the ball whilst outside the box. 

There are many laws regarding a goalkeeper being in possession of the ball that are not correctly enforced. Another example being the goalkeeper is in possession when the ball is between one hand and another surface. Other surfaces include; the other hand, the ground, chest etc. 

[bighairydave]

Just now, John Davies said:

I’m sure that a goalkeeper is deemed to be in possession of the ball for the whole duration of the kick. This law was essentially brought in to prevent the occasions where the opposition would ‘tackle’ the goalkeeper mid-kick.

This therefore means the goalkeeper is technically in control of the ball whilst outside the box. 

There are many laws regarding a goalkeeper being in possession of the ball that are not correctly enforced. Another example being the goalkeeper is in possession when the ball is between one hand and another surface. Other surfaces include; the other hand, the ground, chest etc. 

Possession is different to handling though.

[John Davies]

7 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

Possession is different to handling though.

Tackling a goalkeeper isn’t an offence. Doing it whilst it’s in their possession is. That’s the key part of that. 

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

22 minutes ago, John Davies said:

I’m sure that a goalkeeper is deemed to be in possession of the ball for the whole duration of the kick. This law was essentially brought in to prevent the occasions where the opposition would ‘tackle’ the goalkeeper mid-kick.

This therefore means the goalkeeper is technically in control of the ball whilst outside the box. 

There are many laws regarding a goalkeeper being in possession of the ball that are not correctly enforced. Another example being the goalkeeper is in possession when the ball is between one hand and another surface. Other surfaces include; the other hand, the ground, chest etc. 

Your possibly confusing 2 parts of the laws here. 

Part 1:

The keeper can't be challenged when he is in control of the ball wit his hands.

He is in control of the ball with his hands when he has the ball between 2 hands, one hand and any surface (eg ground or body), or when touching the ball with any part of the hand/arm. 

Part 2:

A keeper can't be prevented from releasing the ball by an opposition player nor can a player attempt to kick the ball whilst the keeper is releasing it. 

Providing the keeper does not handle the ball outside of his area he can't be guilty of handball offence. Whilst he is in the process of releasing it from his control, and if no handling outside the penalty area occurs it matters not where the eventual kicking point is.

Once be has let go of the ball he is no longer in control of the ball with his hands but in the process of releasing it which are two separate matters. 

It's important to note the laws list when he is in control with his hands, and whilst releasing the ball is not one of those things.

[John Davies]

4 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

Your possibly confusing 2 parts of the laws here. 

Part 1:

The keeper can't be challenged when he is in control of the ball wit his hands.

He is in control of the ball with his hands when he has the ball between 2 hands, one hand and any surface (eg ground or body), or when touching the ball with any part of the hand/arm. 

Part 2:

A keeper can't be prevented from releasing the ball by an opposition player nor can a player attempt to kick the ball whilst the keeper is releasing it. 

Providing the keeper does not handle the ball outside of his area he can't be guilty of handball offence. Whilst he is in the process of releasing it from his control, and if no handling outside the penalty area occurs it matters not where the eventual kicking point is.

Once be has let go of the ball he is no longer in control but in the process of releasing it. 

Just because it isn’t my username, I’m also a qualified referee, well I was before I emigrated to Cornwall anyway, but as a football fan, I like to stay in touch. I was also a goalkeeper in my playing times, so I’m quite aware of the laws and how they sometimes can not be enforced as intended. 
 

The way you have stated it, would allow for the goalkeeper to be tackled mid motion, as the opposition player doesn’t have to give the goalkeeper space to complete his motion when outside of the box. 
 

All of that aside however, handball is not a caution. Deliberate, persistent or unsporting behaviour is. This should have been a free kick to the opposition and some advice in his ear. Would probably have helped so he wouldn’t have done this again to receive the second caution.

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

5 minutes ago, John Davies said:

 

The way you have stated it, would allow for the goalkeeper to be tackled mid motion, as the opposition player doesn’t have to give the goalkeeper space to complete his motion when outside of the box. 
 

He does.  A player is not allowed to prevent the goalkeeper from releasing the ball nor attempt to kick the ball during that action of releasing it.

So being in a position allowing them to interfere with or prevent the release that is an offence punishable by indirect free kick. 

What I have quoted in my prior post is pretty much copy and paste from the current laws of the game 22-23.

I have already listed the reasons a referee may caution for handball, and deliberate handball alone is not one of them. 

Cautions for handball only when:

Stops or interferes with promising attack.

Failed attempt to prevent a goal. 

Scores or attempts to score by deliberate handball. 

As part of persistent offending.

You are correct, if the ball was handled outside the penalty area as part of releasing then a caution is not supported in law as an isolated offence and a direct free kick would have sufficed.

 

 

[Uwdi Krugg]

1 hour ago, SSB1 said:

I see the liskeard manager has stepped down this morning. Darren Gilbert was seen lurking behind the dugouts Tuesday night, may he be lined up.

Maybe it's time for my Specsavers appointment but I'm sure I observed Mr Gilbert enjoying the Cally v Bodmin encounter Tuesday evening.

[silly billy]

Two referees arguing with eachother, brilliant 🤣

[Ian Pethick]

33 minutes ago, Uwdi Krugg said:

Maybe it's time for my Specsavers appointment but I'm sure I observed Mr Gilbert enjoying the Cally v Bodmin encounter Tuesday evening.

It's a quick helicopter ride from Pennygillam to Marshfield Parc,  Taking in a half at each is very do able.😀

[hedgerow]

Reference the red card. If you watch closely games on tv and locally a lot of keepers will kick the ball, from the hands, right on the white line or just outside. It has crept in over a number of seasons. The assistant would not have noticed as he would be running up to or already in line with the last man. I agree it’s not a red card though. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

And what level are we playing at?

Ye gods...let it go.